|  Author | Topic: Horizon League Expansion (Read 35,161 times) |
Willie
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|  | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #15 on May 2, 2012, 9:47pm » | |
May 2, 2012, 9:36pm, mrose wrote:| LeCrone can't replicate that. He lost Indianapolis. He lost the only school with National name recognition. And, he can't replace the school he just lost within another major media market or a national name. |
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I beg to differ. LeCrone already stated in his press conference that the HL is looking at adding multiple teams. You are correct that no one team would replace what Butler brings to the table in the national media, but we can easily add some teams that give us another major media market. If the HL tries to add Robert Morris and Drexel for example, that gets our foot in the door to both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. Those would be 2 huge markets to add to the HL. I would gladly trade Butler for Oakland, Robert Morris and Drexel. The 2 PA schools would add travel costs to the HL, but we would be adding 3 potential top 100 teams, more exposure in Detroit, and more exposure in PA.
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mrose
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #16 on May 2, 2012, 10:47pm » | |
There isn't any synergy gained by adding schools such as you suggested. Look at the (proposed) conference RPI over the past 10 years--With Butler and w/o Butler (but with RMU, Drexel, and OU). Drexel has no reason to leave the CAA for the Horizon (it's a pipe dream for some), and the CAA is a better fit for many reasons for the Dragons: 1) Geography. 2) CAA is now much better than horizon w/o Butler. 3) Phillosphically CAA is similiar to Horizon--Mostly State Institutions with a sprinkling of Private schools--Nothing to be gained by changing conference affliation. Media market is practically irrelevant with Drexel and to a lesser extent RMU. Philly is a pro sports town and only 2-3 schools get any noticable media attention--PSU (football), 'Nova, and Temple. St. Joe's, LaSalle, Drexel, and Penn are paid very little attention by the Philly media. RMU joing Horizon would be an okay fit--It's a step up for them. Travel wouldn't be bad, and RMU has a good local following (though local media will be dominated by pro sports, PSU and Pitt). The only draw back is people in ChicagoLand will probably confuse their RMU with the one near Pittsburgh. I can see RMU, OU, and some Summitt League (an Illinois school), or an OVC (Morehead/Murray State) being extended invitations. Unfortunately, you can add all the NEC/Summitt/OVC schools you want, but they still won't bring enough to the table to replace Butler.
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Willie
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #17 on May 3, 2012, 6:24am » | |
May 2, 2012, 10:47pm, mrose wrote:| There isn't any synergy gained by adding schools such as you suggested. Look at the (proposed) conference RPI over the past 10 years--With Butler and w/o Butler (but with RMU, Drexel, and OU). Drexel has no reason to leave the CAA for the Horizon (it's a pipe dream for some). |
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You obviously haven't been following the conference expansion rumors very much then. The CAA's 2 top schools, are also considering a move to the A-10. If both VCU and George Mason end up leaving for the A-10, the CAA will be a horrible conference and would make a move to the HL a very attractive offer to Drexel. that is especially true considering Drexel would be the only remaining school in that conference that doesn't play football.
May 2, 2012, 10:47pm, mrose wrote:| Media market is practically irrelevant with Drexel and to a lesser extent RMU. |
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Conferences expand into new markets to get their foot in the door in those markets. They don't need to add the top dog in that market to make it a good move. Fordham is one of the worst programs in the country, but the A-10 is happy to have them in the conference because they keep them in the NY media market and help all of their schools recruit in that state. The Big 10 has been considering adding Rutgers to their conference for several years now. Rutgers doesn't get any real media attention in New York, but the Big 10 is considering them because it opens the door for them. The A-10 is more than happy to add Butler. They get less media print in Indy than ND, IU, Purdue, the Pacers, and the Colts.
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mrose
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #18 on May 3, 2012, 11:33am » | |
Add Northeastern and Hofstra to the list of schools in the CAA without football. Geographically it makes more sense for Drexel to join the NEC, America East, or MAAC and w/o Butler the Horizon RPI won't be much better (if at all) than the MAAC. Fordham is a bit of a different story and there are other reasons than having a member in the largest media market. It's one of 9 Catholic Institutions in the A-10, so there's a lot of non-athletic commonalities with the other members. Drexel has nothing in common with WSU, YSU, Valpo, UMGB, etc. In addition, many A-10 members have a strong Alumni base in the NY/NJ area. I highly doubt Horizon members have large alumni bases in NYC. The Big 10 has considered Rutgers for one reason and one reason only--$$$ Money $$$. By adding Rutgers cable providers would be "forced" to carry the Big Ten Network--That's a cash cow generating Millions of $$ for each school. In case you forgot, the Horizon Network is Free--It doesn't generate one red cent.
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Raider Fanatic
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #19 on May 3, 2012, 6:10pm » | |
May 3, 2012, 11:33am, mrose wrote:| Add Northeastern and Hofstra to the list of schools in the CAA without football. Geographically it makes more sense for Drexel to join the NEC, America East, or MAAC and w/o Butler the Horizon RPI won't be much better (if at all) than the MAAC. |
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That's not true. I teach college math and statistics at WSU and actually use the RPI equation in a few of my classes. Butler had a final RPI of 116 last year and the HL had a conference RPI of 14. The MAAC had a conference RPI of 18, NEC was 24, and America East was 29. If you remove Butler from the RPI equation for the HL, we would have finished in 15th place last year. That's well above the 18th ranked MAAC. If you would have replaced Butler with Oakland, the HL would have finished in the exact same 14th place.
If LeCrone is smart he will add Oakland first to solidify the HL. He can then sell our product to schools from lower conferences as a chance for them to move up. Drexel will definitely be looking to jump ship from the CAA if George Mason and VCU leave for the A-10. They may choose one of the conferences you mentioned for easier travel, but if they are looking to upgrade conferences the HL is still going to be well above the those you mentioned.
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #22 on May 6, 2012, 10:06am » | |
Evansville keeps popping up on twitter and in a few articles here and there. I don't know why they would want to get out of the MVC, but if they did they would be an ideal fit.
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mrose
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #23 on May 8, 2012, 1:51pm » | |
Raider Fanatic, that was me who you tried to "take to task" by saying the Horizon without Butler wouldn't be much better, if at all, than than MAAC. You're correct--15th is SO MUCH better than 18. Let's hang the banner in the Nutter--"Horizon League, The 15th best conference in the Land", and a one bid league just like all those leagues below us.
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Indy Raider
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #24 on May 8, 2012, 6:22pm » | |
May 8, 2012, 1:51pm, mrose wrote:| Raider Fanatic, that was me who you tried to "take to task" by saying the Horizon without Butler wouldn't be much better, if at all, than than MAAC. You're correct--15th is SO MUCH better than 18. Let's hang the banner in the Nutter--"Horizon League, The 15th best conference in the Land", and a one bid league just like all those leagues below us. |
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Seriously, some of you guys need to look at the big picture and not one season. Last year was a down year for the HL as a whole. Butler wasn't the only team to have an off year. Most of the teams in the conference did. We were the 14th rated conference and we only had 2 teams ranked in the top 100 (barely). WSU had it's worst RPI in almost a decade. The year before, the HL was ranked 11th and had 4 teams in the top 100, with WSU just outside the top 100 too. The HL has up and down seasons, but more often than not we are in the 11-12 range vs the 14-15 range. If we add 3-5 teams to the conference like everyone thinks and they are teams in the top 100 range, we will consistently be a top 10 conference and should be able to get multiple bids every year. Even if we just add Oakland, there is no reason we can't stay a top 10-15 conference that gets an at large bid every few years. If you look at the conferences RPI the last decade, Butler was the only team to get an at large bid. That doesn't mean other schools couldn't have gotten an at large bid too. Several of the teams that beat Butler to get the automatic bid for the HL would have been a contender for an at large bid on their own merits.
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coogles
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| | Re: Replacements for Butler
« Reply #29 on May 11, 2012, 8:54am » | |
May 10, 2012, 6:17am, Cheerfan wrote:
I see everyone poo-poo the IUPU schools all the time, but I honestly don't see any real differences between IPFW & IUPUI versus the other satellite universities already in the Horizon in UWM, UWBG & UIC, or even the other urban public university in Cleveland State.
Both have access to civic arenas for basketball. IPFW already uses the Memorial Coliseum and IUPUI could use Banker's or the to-be-renovated Pepsi Coliseum at the Indiana State Fairgrounds.
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