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Post by Ukraine Train on Mar 31, 2014 14:42:53 GMT -5
We really need to put together a schedule of teams that will attract fans and win games. If we do that we don't need to worry about any gimmicks or price drops. Dayton is full of people that will pay money to see good basketball.
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Post by raiders41 on Mar 31, 2014 15:54:26 GMT -5
I very much disagree with this comment, yes we do giveaway tickets for free to the games and usually 1 t-shirt game a year. But with the exception of those 2 things there is a lackluster effort by the university to get students out to the games. To be honest if I didn't have the schedule memorized I would never know when a game was with the exception of the t-shirt games because those are the only ones that they advertise for. The university puts up these dull green signs on gameday that say "Game tonight at 7:00" that practically blend in with the grass, so if there isn't snow on the ground you're probably not going to see it. I've asked fellow students that I get to go to the games "would you have known there was a game tonight if I didn't tell you?" and every time they say no. Students don't know when the games are, some don't even know we are even a DI program, and some don't even know we have sports here at all! We had 3 T-shirt giveaways this year. The athletic department sent out e-mails to student's WSU e-mail account before the season and before every home game. They have the Raider Up rewards program to get students to share info about the games on facebook and twitter so they can get that info out to their friends. In the past they had giveaways to students that included 1 free quarter's tuition, TVs, gift cards, etc and student attendance hasn't really benefitted. Wright State has increased student housing over the years but in large part we are still a commuter school. Most of our students work in order to attend school. It doesn't matter what incentives we offer them, they aren't interested in attending basketball games. Like I said we usually have 1 t-shirt game a year, I really don't expect us to be doing this every year with 3. As for the emails, I just searched through my emails, and the only ones that I received were for the t-shirt games, the beginning of the season, and the Horizon League Championship game. So we really only advertised for 4 games this season. Think about popular apps on iphones today Vine and SnapChat. These videos/pictures last 6-10 seconds. The attention span of people is getting smaller and smaller, so how do you reach them? Honestly what I would do, well at least coming into this season, I would have got cutouts of Jerran going up for a dunk put them in every building on campus, have the time, date, opponent of the next home game and mention tickets are free. These would capture the attention of a lot more students than what emails and these lame signs that we have now would. We can't just be advertising the day of the game because like goraiders93 said people already have plans for that night made up by then. We need to be advertising for the next home game the morning after the last game. Emails are easy to skip over and delete, if we could just pound that image of one of our players into the minds of students around campus and build that excitement that if I go to the game I'm going to see Chrishawn or Steven (thinking of the future here) throw one down I think that the student attendance will go up.
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Post by OG Raiderfan on Mar 31, 2014 16:31:37 GMT -5
I highly doubt having flashy signs around campus with one of our players dunking is going to increase student attendance. Honestly, I think we could have put up a life size image of Young dunking on the door of every building around campus this year and student attendance wouldn't have gone up. If the game isn't on TV or against an opponent they know about, college kids don't give a crap. If we want our students to care we need to do the same thing we need to do to attract paying customers. We need to improve our OOC schedule and we need to start winning more games. Until we fix those 2 problems, nothing else is really going to matter.
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Post by raiders41 on Mar 31, 2014 17:10:12 GMT -5
I highly doubt having flashy signs around campus with one of our players dunking is going to increase student attendance. Honestly, I think we could have put up a life size image of Young dunking on the door of every building around campus this year and student attendance wouldn't have gone up. If the game isn't on TV or against an opponent they know about, college kids don't give a crap. If we want our students to care we need to do the same thing we need to do to attract paying customers. We need to improve our OOC schedule and we need to start winning more games. Until we fix those 2 problems, nothing else is really going to matter. I'm not saying that this is the only thing to do nor is it magically going to get every student at WSU to get out to the games, but it is a start. We need to build excitement about games that aren't giveaways or tournament games. But to get students to the arena, students need to know when there is a game, and right now our techniques being used by our athletic department are failing to capture the attention of the student body. Like I said in an earlier post students do not even know when games are. And I do agree with your about the OOC schedule I mean look at the UC game a few years ago, students showed up for the game
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Post by Raider3G on Mar 31, 2014 20:03:06 GMT -5
We are just so average it almost makes you want to give up, but I can't because WSU is my team come rain or come shine. Yeah, because playing in four conference finals in 8 years with a chance to go to the NCAA tourney is "so average". I applaud you for sticking with WSU and think its great you raised your kid to be a WSU fan (my dad did the same for me), but as I pointed out in a different post, we are so close to being a VERY VERY good program. WSU has had a good basketball program for 8 years, period. It is more than just competitive, we have good players, facilities, etc. That said, I completely agree that the program is not where a) it could and should be, and b) playing in CBI/CIT year after year over a long period won't cut it. I fully believe that with the current roster, we're a top three team in the HL. If we get Karena, we're a top two. If we stay healthy, we can overtake CSU, UWM or UWGB. As a more general comment, I wonder if some of the points being made on this post about the competitiveness or lack thereof would lack a little more emotion if the team across town didn't have they run that they did. I know it bothered me, and I kept thinking "why couldn't this have been us in [insert any year since 2006, except BD's second year]". Final point..Ukraine train and others are right. If we win, they'll come. Figuring out how to increase attendance thru such methods is for when you already have 8k and your trying to get it to 1000k...trying to move from 4k to 8k needs wins and excitement about a program.
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Post by BasketBallJones on Mar 31, 2014 20:58:56 GMT -5
If I were President Hopkins I would fire the entire Athletic Department starting with Bob Grant. He is a prime example of the Peter Principle. He has risen to his level of incompetence. The head is rotten and needs to be cut off. Bob Grant #uhno.
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Post by mrose on Apr 1, 2014 0:35:27 GMT -5
I'm curious, ecb123, about your take. From your last comment, I read it that playing in 4 conference championship games in 8 years with a chance to go to the NCAA means WSU is above average.
That's 50% of the time.
Above average in what regard?
Schools like Vermont (3 of the last 5), Iona and Stony Brook (3 of the last 4), Weber State and Montana (4 of last 5), Robert Morris and Morgan State (5 of last 6 years), or Ohio's Powerhouse--Akron (7 of last 8) have been in their respective conference finals a higher percentage of time.
If going to a conference game in 4 of the last 8 years and almost going to the dance in 3 of those 8 years makes us a "very very good program" does that mean Morgan State and Akron have superior programs to Wright State?
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Post by wsutommygun on Apr 1, 2014 6:37:51 GMT -5
mrose, I'd say if you can only point to a handful of examples of mid-majors doing better then you are giving credibility to ecb123. I have no idea of how many teams are included in either one of your calculations ( either just mid-majors or everyone ) but, to be average then half would have to be playing in 4 conference championships in 8 years ( I'd find that hard to believe ). There may be teams that have done better then WSU during that stretch but, I can't imagine any true fan as thinking someone else is superior and still remaining a fan. The NCAA hasn't shown any real desire to load up on mid-majors for the big dance so, the best bet is playing for the automatic bid. How many of your examples lost the conference tourney final but, got at-large bids? Anyway, I'm betting the average number of times for mid-major schools playing in conference championships over the past 8 years is below 50% ( so, that might not be the average ).
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Post by Fastbreak on Apr 1, 2014 7:07:50 GMT -5
I'm curious, ecb123, about your take. From your last comment, I read it that playing in 4 conference championship games in 8 years with a chance to go to the NCAA means WSU is above average. That's 50% of the time. Above average in what regard? Schools like Vermont (3 of the last 5), Iona and Stony Brook (3 of the last 4), Weber State and Montana (4 of last 5), Robert Morris and Morgan State (5 of last 6 years), or Ohio's Powerhouse--Akron (7 of last 8) have been in their respective conference finals a higher percentage of time. If going to a conference game in 4 of the last 8 years and almost going to the dance in 3 of those 8 years makes us a "very very good program" does that mean Morgan State and Akron have superior programs to Wright State? You pointed out 8 teams from inferior conferences that have been able to make it to their conference tournament championship game often. You act like those teams performance is not above average for their conference. There are about 80-90 teams in those conferences that would love to have the success of those schools in those conferences. There are 8 other teams in the HL that would have loved to have been in 4 of the last 8 HL championship games too.
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Post by hhgreen on Apr 1, 2014 8:23:08 GMT -5
If you take Butler out of the equation we are the class of the Horizon League with CSU right behind us in the last 8 years.
Has YSU, Illinois-Chicago, GB or Milw been the class of the Horizon League in the last 8 years? Loyola was surely not, Oakland is new. Valpo has been decent but not as good as us.
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Post by wsutommygun on Apr 1, 2014 8:47:15 GMT -5
If someone doesn't like the coach, AD, or the fact that we don't have McDonald's All-Americans practicing free throws in the pavilion then I'm not sure what to say. There is nothing wrong with wanting a better SOS, RPI, or record. There is nothing wrong with hoping for better postseason tournaments but, what is the alternative to reflecting on the past season(s) and taking something away from it. I used to think that the first few years in the Nutter Center had attendance skewed by the novelty of a new building ( whether there were freebie tickets or not ) but, we have had some really nice crowds over the years ( even if was partly because of bobbleheads, t-shirts, ESPN, or whatever ), people would show up on occasion such as the conference final ( did OOC SOS matter that night ). Sorry, but it seems like a waste of time to sit thru a season and determine it was a failure because we didn't do this or that when April rolls around.
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Post by mrose on Apr 1, 2014 11:59:23 GMT -5
Those schools were just off the top of my head. I suspect if one were to research it the majority of conferences have schools playing in multiple championship games over the course of 8 years.
I'm just seeking what is the delineation (on this board), in the context of Div. I hoops, between average, above average, and below average programs. If the marker is the number of conference championship games played, does that make Morgan State an above average program in the universe of D I? Does that mean the team across town has a below average program?
Tommygun: Regarding mid-majors going to the NCAA or NIT, I've already answered your question in an early comment. 85% of the schools playing in repeat championships this year went on the play in either the NCAA or NIT. The 3 that didn't: Prairie View A&M, Morgan State, Wright State.
My comment about schools such as Akron isn't a statement of fact, it's question. If the criteria used to define WSU's program (conference championship games) makes us a "good" program does that make Akron a superior program? Yes, the MAC has an overall lower RPI rating, but the MAC and HL are RPI middle-third conferences and a peer in regards to mid-majors.
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Post by wsutommygun on Apr 1, 2014 15:28:03 GMT -5
mrose, you didn't really answer my question, of the repeat teams in conference championships which mid-majors lost and got at-large bids? I've only been to Akron for basketball games and their set up didn't make much of an impression. They have football so, their fans might consider that when they think of the state of basketball. Personally, they could go to the Final Four for the next 10 years and it wouldn't make me a fan...just as I don't care about that other team in town. If you don't like the Raiders then there is nothing I can say that will convince you to appreciate what we've done. Making conference championship games makes us a good program if that is a goal and the other teams in the league can't say it's been 4 out of 8. It would be nice if we had won this year and I thought we would, didn't everyone on the board?
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Post by uptempo on Apr 1, 2014 18:33:01 GMT -5
Tommygun made the following statement above: "There may be teams that have done better then WSU during that stretch but, I can't imagine any true fan as thinking someone else is superior and still remaining a fan." What does that mean? And what is the difference between a "fan" and a "true fan." Are you saying that only true fans stick by their team, but all other fans go with whatever team is best at any given time? Or is a true fan someone who accepts mediocrity year after year and doesn't complain about always coming up short. Secondly, WSU's results have been disappointing the last two years by getting beat in the conference championship game. Wright State made great strides under BB. Donlon inherited a strong program and pretty much treaded water for the last 4 years. Granted, we are in a much better place than we were 10 years ago, but after BB raised the bar I was hoping the next coach was in a position to take this team farther.
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Post by keithfromxenia on Apr 2, 2014 10:43:32 GMT -5
In the immortal words of cool hand Luke, "what we have here is a failure to communicate". Tommygun is speaking in Greek and Mrose etal are speaking in German. Why??? Really pretty simple. It has to do with the bar. No not the law bar, tg' s bar. His bar is low, very, very low. A snake would find it difficult to crawl under tommygun's bar. He just cannot comprehend how fans cannot find second place finishes and being post season butt sitters to be wonderful and satisfying. Mrose, if we had not been in those two championship games, losing both, but had finished in the top half of the league, tommygun would be telling us how good we should feel because not many teams finish in the top half of their league. That is that whole low bar thing. It saddens me to see the number of fans who are willing to accept the level this program is performing, that post season ncaa appearances are just not necessary. I believe we could have the next four years could be exactly like the past four years the same people would be saying the same things.
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