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Post by Dr J on Feb 26, 2015 21:50:55 GMT -5
Milwaukee played defense when the ball came in. The clock ran out before the shot was to the basket. One more step and time expired. Not. Bad game since was 5 against 8. This was the worse crew I have seen. At the end of the game they started calling the fouls on Milwaukee and Jeter couldn't believe in hey we're actually calling the fouls against them. Also, after refs called fifth foul on Tiby and came to the bench he turn and yelled "bullshit" to the refs and no technical called. Wonder if the league will do anything or can.
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Post by Dr J on Feb 26, 2015 22:03:59 GMT -5
I would hope the Reggie and the coaches would notice the he shot 2-2 from 3 point land in the corners and 0-4 from any other place on the court. He has always shot better from the corners. Not sure why we only played 3 defensive rotations of zone. We made 3 stops and then went right back to man to man. I do have to say it was a difficult game to coach because of the refs. The important game is Saturday against UIC. If we win home tournament game.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 26, 2015 22:12:29 GMT -5
Can't believe we won one home conference game all season. Regardless of the reasons, that's really, really, really bad.
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Post by jumbojimbo on Feb 27, 2015 8:22:56 GMT -5
I would hope the Reggie and the coaches would notice the he shot 2-2 from 3 point land in the corners and 0-4 from any other place on the court. He has always shot better from the corners. Not sure why we only played 3 defensive rotations of zone. We made 3 stops and then went right back to man to man. I do have to say it was a difficult game to coach because of the refs. The important game is Saturday against UIC. If we win home tournament game. Considering Reggie made at least 8 in a row, 11 out of 12 from the corner during warmup. It might have been more, he may have shot more before I started counting. I have the same question about zone. I've heard coach Brown say to Coach Donlon that he knows he doesn't like plyaing zone. Brown says it like "I know you hate picking up dog sh*t with your bare hands". But if it's effective, why the heck not? I realize eventually it will get broken down, but if we're playing man to man and only get stops 30% of the time, switch to zone and get stops 70% of the time, then why not keep playing it until it stops working? Everyone always focuses on the one time the zone gets beat because it looks so painfully awful. So what, that's one basket, why give up on it so quickly? It seems like an irrational reaction to getting beat badly on one play. And it's not just Donlon, I see other teams playing us give up on the zone the moment we beat it. Why don't more teams do like Valpo did last game, sit in the zone and challenge us to beat it? And if we don't then just keep playing it?
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Post by ohiopirate on Feb 27, 2015 9:20:53 GMT -5
Typical stupid decisions at the end of a game. 3 stupid point blank misses. I'm not sure point blank misses are bad decisions...
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Post by ohiopirate on Feb 27, 2015 9:25:40 GMT -5
cc and jb said Hopkins took the last shot from the halfcourt. they said uwm made their last shot with 4.8 seconds left. 4.8 seconds is an eternity. anyone have an idea why our last shot was from half court. Maybe he took the shot at 4.8 seconds? I can't say for sure but I think there were only about 3 seconds left when we inbounded the ball. Crowd was incredible the last 4 minutes of the game when we went to the press and started to rattle Milwaukee. Brutal game to lose even though we were down most of the 2nd half - just felt like we were going to pull it out on senior night.
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Post by paulkris on Feb 27, 2015 10:55:32 GMT -5
I am not a ref basher. I think they have a difficult job that every one of us would be totally lost at doing. I talk to them but I don't yell. There are a few (Sanzere and Jamie Luckie) that I don't like because of their arrogance and their style. There are a few others like Joe Derosa who are great refs but have ears that are too big. Last night's refs were pitiful. Take a look at this: Tim Fitzgerald- games called this season-18 Lewis Garrison, jr.-games called this season-1 Archibald Whaley- games called this season-21 I don't think those numbers include last night but they are still pitiful. A ref becomes a good ref by working the games. Most NCAA refs work between 60 and 80 games a season. A few, like Luckie, may work over 100 games. If anyone is interested here is the most complete stat sheet for NCAA refs. statsheet.com/mcb/referees
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Post by Black PantherU on Feb 27, 2015 11:39:54 GMT -5
If you're expecting anything better out of the refs, you haven't been around long enough. This is the Horizon League - 'Raise Your Sights' sounds like it should be a directive to the referees, since they seem to be staring at the floor the entire game for all the calls they get right.
I only got to see about 75% of the game, we were fighting a poor ESPN3 feed on the internet at the Black Rose bar in Milwaukee. The only call I thought was bad against us was the charge called on Springs. I stopped counting bad calls at 5 or 6, and that charge was the only one against us. As biased as I am, that should tell you guys that your complaints aren't unfounded. You can bet your bottom dollar that Donlon's staff will bring that tape to the Horizon League this offseason. We were lucky to escape with a victory.
Archibald Whaley in particular has been a god-awful referee for years.
Honestly, I wasn't trolling yesterday. But I will take up the mantle in my thumbnail pic.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 27, 2015 12:19:38 GMT -5
The issue with Horizon officiating simply boils down to when (and where) game are played. There are several officials who are commonly assigned to league games that are major officials in power 6 conferences. Officials like Kipp Kissinger (a HUGE big 12 ref, several nationally ranked game this season), the Simpson brothers (Big10) , Brian Dorsey (Big10) , Bert Smith (Big12), Joe DeRosa (NBA, SEC) But the only way we get these guys is scheduling games on quiet nights. To prove my point, when we hosted Green Bay (on a Monday night) we had Kipp Kissinger and Joe DeRosa, the next day those 2 guys had the Georgia @ Kentucky game.
But if we play on a crowded day (especially Saturday), the league is scraping the bottom of the barrel for officials. This is where guys like Bill Jacobson, Thomas Short, Larry Martin, come out of the woodwork... Guys who don't even have a hundred NCAA d1 games officiated. The league is literally calling anyone who owns a whistle and may have worked at Foot Locker at some point in their lives. Trust me, I've been a soccer ref for over 12 years...I go where the money is...and I'm a desired official. I do major tournaments all over the Great Lakes area, which leaves my smaller communities scraping for decent officials. There's nothing we can do besides expect it, especially when we play on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays....and on the occasional Monday or Friday game, revel in the fact that there are quality time-proven whistles in the house.
Last night, especially the second half, was a far cry from a well officiated game. The foul on Karena that led to the BD tech wasn't a foul...they should have taken it, and the technical off the board. It's physically impossible (proven on Sports Science) for Tiby to fly off of Karena like he did. I wish the NCAA would adopt some of the flop rules that the NBA has. Then the turnover for Milwaukee at center court should have been a foul on Karena, all day. I cannot believe that was overlooked. I also think that Jeter (acting in the same manner as Donlon) should have been T'd up for blowing up for the lack of call. The most important thing about officiating any sport is consistency, otherwise nobody takes you seriously, and you lose control...which is exactly what happened last night. It was one of the worst officiated games I've seen at the division one level in a long time.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 27, 2015 12:24:45 GMT -5
I just posted this in the Milwaukee thread without knowing this thread was here. I'm like the NCAA ref aficionado. Same for football and baseball. My wife HATES it when I know the refs better than I know the players.. But this is worth a read.
The issue with Horizon officiating simply boils down to when (and where) game are played. There are several officials who are commonly assigned to league games that are major officials in power 6 conferences. Officials like Kipp Kissinger (a HUGE big 12 ref, several nationally ranked game this season), the Simpson brothers (Big10) , Brian Dorsey (Big10) , Bert Smith (Big12), Joe DeRosa (NBA, SEC) But the only way we get these guys is scheduling games on quiet nights. To prove my point, when we hosted Green Bay (on a Monday night) we had Kipp Kissinger and Joe DeRosa, the next day those 2 guys had the Georgia @ Kentucky game.
But if we play on a crowded day (especially Saturday), the league is scraping the bottom of the barrel for officials. This is where guys like Bill Jacobson, Thomas Short, Larry Martin, come out of the woodwork... Guys who don't even have a hundred NCAA d1 games officiated. The league is literally calling anyone who owns a whistle and may have worked at Foot Locker at some point in their lives. Trust me, I've been a soccer ref for over 12 years...I go where the money is...and I'm a desired official. I do major tournaments all over the Great Lakes area, which leaves my smaller communities scraping for decent officials. There's nothing we can do besides expect it, especially when we play on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays....and on the occasional Monday or Friday game, revel in the fact that there are quality time-proven whistles in the house.
Last night, especially the second half, was a far cry from a well officiated game. The foul on Karena that led to the BD tech wasn't a foul...they should have taken it, and the technical off the board. It's physically impossible (proven on Sports Science) for Tiby to fly off of Karena like he did. I wish the NCAA would adopt some of the flop rules that the NBA has. Then the turnover for Milwaukee at center court should have been a foul on Karena, all day. I cannot believe that was overlooked. I also think that Jeter (acting in the same manner as Donlon) should have been T'd up for blowing up for the lack of call. The most important thing about officiating any sport is consistency, otherwise nobody takes you seriously, and you lose control...which is exactly what happened last night. It was one of the worst officiated games I've seen at the division one level in a long time.
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Post by BasketBallJones on Feb 27, 2015 13:07:48 GMT -5
I said the same thing last night. I rarely get upset at the refs at a game. Yes, they may make a call here and there that I think is wrong, but for the most part I think the games are officiated fairly. Last nights officiating was literally a joke. They blew calls all over the floor. Its one of the few games that I've watched where I think the players could have called their own fouls on each other during the game like we did way back when when we played pick-up games and it would have been a much better officiated game.
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Post by paulkris on Feb 27, 2015 13:18:41 GMT -5
This may have been one of the very few games where I saw an obvious "make up" call. Billy started to say something to a ref right after the play and the ref said something to him and Billy just put his hands up and backed away.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 27, 2015 13:22:06 GMT -5
Completely agree with you. As an official, I am quick to point out mistakes made my officials (good call, bad call, etc.), but very rarely call out one call, or even one official...If you lose to one official, making ONE call...then you didn't play well enough. But it's really a crime that the league can put a division one basketball game in this kind of predicament where you truly have nobody on the court who can control the game. Sometimes you get one veteran with a couple of noobs, but the experienced guy can dictate the flow of the game, and maintain control. They basically put a high school freshman at the controls of a 747 on final descent, asked him to land it, and he puts it in the drink. The league should be embarrassed by the officiating put on the floor last night. Hopefully something good comes of this...hopefully...
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Post by Dr J on Feb 27, 2015 14:09:11 GMT -5
This was the general consensus of the fans at the game last night. They didn't call fouls against Milwaukee in the first part of the game but at the end of the game they called the same situation a foul. I'm not sure if they understand what an illegal screen really is. Hopefully the league will evaluate and determine that they need more experience before they can ref at this level. They also were very inconsistent on walking calls on both sides. Was interesting last night. Jester called a time out right after an obvious walking violation and the ref gave him the time out and didn't call the walk.
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Post by jumbojimbo on Feb 27, 2015 15:04:50 GMT -5
I wondered if the time out was requested well before the walk and that's why the walk wasn't called, even though the player walked before the whistle. Possibly the player just reacted to the time out just before the actual call? I don't have a problem if the refs don't call the walk in the interest of being fair, especially if it was their own actions that caused the confusion. On the other hand, if Jeter really was calling time out to get the player out of jam and the player walked before he could save him, that was bs.
What about the over and back call? I realize we're 13 rows up, but I sure thought I had a good view of his foot and it was inches short of the line. Of course, I know how easy it is to be 100% sure on what you see and be 100% wrong. Ref has to call what he sees and I don't have a problem if he sees it wrong as long as he's just honestly wrong. On the other hand, his angle sucked.
The ref's reactions after viewing the Karena/Tiby replay said it all. No long winded explanation of why it wasn't flagrant, they just slunk away from the monitor mumbling "oops, my bad".
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