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Post by Black PantherU on May 6, 2015 9:07:19 GMT -5
"The deal with the Joe involves $200,000 per year for the Horizon League, with $20,000 per school." Does that mean there will be a 10th member or is the HL pocketing $20K? There will be a 10th school. I can't get anyone who is 100% sure on it to go on the record for who it is, even anonymously. But there will be a 10th team. |
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Post by wsutommygun on May 6, 2015 9:17:10 GMT -5
mrose, the league usually gets an equal share of NCAA tourney payouts ( the team(s) in the tourney used to get an extra share but I think the formula was changed for Butler ). I wonder if the $20,000 per school is an assumption. Although we have been led to believe a 10th member will be announced this month, the "deal" would have you think that no other additions would be made during the contract.
I still think the negatives outweigh any positives. I looked inside Joe Louis Arena once...many moons ago but I'm sure the Red Wings have it nice.
I just wish the HL put this much effort into expansion that would benefit RPI. It is what it is and a benefit for those that travel will be knowing ahead of time. Used to have things like spirit unit competition since they were all there ( and I went to a few of those ).
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Post by raidergrad98 on May 6, 2015 9:25:05 GMT -5
"The deal with the Joe involves $200,000 per year for the Horizon League, with $20,000 per school." Does that mean there will be a 10th member or is the HL pocketing $20K? A measly $20k?? Wow, I'd rather just have my per-game season ticket price raised by $2 if the university wants a pissy little $20k that bad. If this were April 1st, all of this would make complete sense. As it's early May, it's still a joke - just not funny. |
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Post by wsutommygun on May 6, 2015 9:46:17 GMT -5
raidergrad98, you brought up something that crossed my mind. Although I'd have voted NO, I can live with the 7-2 vote in favor. At least, we aren't being asked to pay them for the privilege of using the arena.
I wonder if the potential for hosting tourney games ( whether a freebie for the opening round or paying extra ) has any impact on season ticket buying decisions. Would the fact that maybe hosting take any sting out of those non-D1 games on someone's schedule? For all of the reasons the league used to justify the current format, what has changed that made them think it wasn't working? ( Maybe ESPN was more upset that the final had to be moved a few years ago rather than the HL ).
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Post by wolf41 on May 6, 2015 13:02:17 GMT -5
I could have understood going to Indy for the tournament, but not Detroit. But I guess the money was the driving force behind the decision.
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Post by raidergrad98 on May 6, 2015 14:39:30 GMT -5
I could have understood going to Indy for the tournament, but not Detroit. But I guess the money was the driving force behind the decision. $200k better not be the "money" driving any decision like this. That's Summit or Patriot money there. :-) |
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Post by Raider3G on May 6, 2015 17:00:55 GMT -5
Let's see...how else could we draw in $20,000....divide that by 12 (say average cost of ticket), and that's about an extra 1,500 fans---meaning do all the things we all complain about to make it a better environment. And what are we going to do wtih that extra $20k? I partially wonder if this is the cost of the HL going with the cost of attendance measures. Not sure that even makes a big dent, but probably gave enough of a excuse to argue in favor of it by those 7 schools
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Post by wsuraider09 on May 6, 2015 17:29:40 GMT -5
This is load of horse $hit. The only 2 schools who will have more than a bus of fans at any game are Oakland and Detroit, giving them a pretty distinct advantage. I currently live in Michigan, and can tell you all that Detroit is the armpit of the state, and really the whole region. I cannot believe Indy or Chicago didn't get more consideration. Both are decent cities, with enough to do to make a trip out of it...Something Detroit can't say. Not to mention the league offices are in downtown Indianapolis. This completely eliminates the intensity and materiality of the regular season...you aren't playing to not open on the road, you aren't playing for home court advantage. There's not one piece of this that makes any sense, and will really bring the quality of the league, and league play down. The only people who are going to like this are Titans and Grizzlies, the rest of the league is getting shafted. Milwaukee is 6.5 hours by car (probably 8 by bus), and Green Bay is 8 by car, and probably 9.5-10 by bus. They are really getting the short end of the deal. Chicago's worst traveler is YSU at only 7 hours, and Indy's worst is Green Bay at just over 7 hours. Logic is the epitome of flawed. Wonder what Ray McCallum did to make this happen. They will obviously be the favorite in every tournament, even as the 8 seed. A complete abomination to putting forth an entertaining and competitive league.
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Post by Big D on May 6, 2015 17:49:05 GMT -5
I would be willing to bet that this decision to go to a neutral site tournament has a lot more to do with attracting new members to the HL than it does with anything else. We have been going after a few OVC schools for the last few years. They play a neutral site tournament format. I know for a fact that they did not like our previous format of giving the top seed a double bye and home court advantage in the HL tournament. I don't like having the tournament in Detroit the next 5 years. I think Indy would have been the better choice, but I am pretty sure we did this for the sake of future HL expansion. If this means we get to add Belmont and Murray State to the HL in the near future I can live with going to Detroit for the next 5 years.
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Post by BasketBallJones on May 7, 2015 12:15:30 GMT -5
You might be lucky to make it alive out of Detroit 5 years in a row if you decide to attend the tournament.
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Post by wsuraider09 on May 7, 2015 14:04:29 GMT -5
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Post by raiders41 on May 7, 2015 23:15:20 GMT -5
I was really hoping that with a neutral site tournament this would have been changed to help with the attendance
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Post by riceownz2 on May 8, 2015 9:01:03 GMT -5
I feel like most on the board, this stinks. I hope I am proved wrong, but attendance is going to be terrible and the championship game is going to look like a joke on national TV.
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Post by hittmanraider on May 8, 2015 9:59:31 GMT -5
I think this is the most united the members on this board have ever been  Does anyone actually think this could be a positive for the league?? Side note the part I hate the most is the format will devalue the regular season. Home court advantage has been huge in no only getting to the finals but winning it. I will miss that part of it. |
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Post by wsuraider09 on May 8, 2015 13:15:11 GMT -5
The only positive for the league is that now we have a "neutral tournament" that it may help us in recruitment of other members. This format is the way that almost all of the other conferences have gone to (I think the count stands at 3 who have not). I see that as the only strong positive in this entire decision.
Detroit won't even show up to most UDM games. Their average attendance last season was 2500, roughly 30% of their capacity. They only had 1725 people for their first round game against Youngstown State. 1725! For a post-season game. UDM fans don't even show up for their own post-season games at their own gym, what makes people think that people in Detroit are going to show up for a post-season tournament.
Detroit also has a terrible reputation of showing up for post-season gamers in general. Here are their home games in the tournament since the inception of this format:
2015 season- (#5)1st round against YSU - 1725 fans
2012 season- (#3)1st round against Loyola - 1917 fans
2011 season- (#5)1st round against Loyola - 1617 fans
2006 season- (#5)1st round against CSU - 1031 fans (3 days after they beat Butler at home)
2003 season- (#5)1st round against CSU - 1055 fans
2002 season- (#5)1st round against WSU - 1129 fans
I'm missing where the Horizon League gets off thinking that basketball fans in Detroit are going to fill Joe Louis Arena. The proof is in the pudding. Not one time in the last 13 years has Detroit had more than 2000 fans for a post-season game. You can take all of their post season games and fit them all into the Nutter Center with plenty of room to spare.
I don't have the time of day to go through and review statistics from every team, but the only other team that even has a shot of being worse is YSU...and I think that's a stretch.
I think the league is going to regret this decision mightily. Best case scenario is they get the Detroit average attendance, plus a few hundred. Maybe get Oakland's average post-season attendance...and then a dozen or so fans from WSU, CSU, Valpo...and that's probably about it. I would wager that the entire attendance will be for the entire tournament will be lucky to crack 15,000. The only hope of a decent turnout is that Detroit or Oakland making some noise, and drawing out casual hoops fans to root for the home team. If the championship game involves a teams like WSU, GB, Valpo, what is going to make Detroit citizens want to see the game, when they don't even go see their own team. You'll have a few hundred fans up from Dayton or Valpo, and a few hundred fans from around the community. Nothing like a nationally televised championship game with 2000 fans in attendance.
I think decision was the only one that the league had. I read that they have been putting feelers out there about this for the last couple of years, and didn't get any takes. I'm sure we couldn't get the deal worked out in Chicago or Indianapolis because they have their choice of tournaments to host, and plenty of money to be made. Detroit has nothing going for it, so why not roll the dice.
It's a dangerous city, and it really lacks the tourist draw of cities like Chicago and Indy. It's only about a 2ish hour drive from where I live in Michigan...and spending a long weekend in Detroit is not something high on my list of things to do.
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Does anyone actually think this could be a positive for the league?? Side note the part I hate the most is the format will devalue the regular season. Home court advantage has been huge in no only getting to the finals but winning it. I will miss that part of it.