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Post by fairbornfan on Apr 19, 2013 19:58:40 GMT -5
From the Horizon League Statement: “We will also continue to work proactively and aggressively on our internal and external growth plans.” THE HORIZON LEAGUE IS A JOKE. The time to add teams is now, stop the bleeding. This is going to kill recruiting, who wants to play for a team in a league that pretty soon will be so picked over that they won't have an automatic bid. The answer is nobody good. WSU needs to jump ship before it sinks.
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Post by Cheerfan on Apr 19, 2013 20:05:20 GMT -5
From the Horizon League Statement: “We will also continue to work proactively and aggressively on our internal and external growth plans.” THE HORIZON LEAGUE IS A JOKE. The time to add teams is now, stop the bleeding. This is going to kill recruiting, who wants to play for a team in a league that pretty soon will be so picked over that they won't have an automatic bid. The answer is nobody good. WSU needs to jump ship before it sinks. Yeah, that's why we have a top JUCO guard on campus today. Like I said yesterday, some of you guys need to take a valium and chill out for a few months. We will know who the new members of the HL will be by July. The sky isn't falling.
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Post by mrose on Apr 19, 2013 20:34:38 GMT -5
Hmmm. What exactly does "Internal Growth" entail?
Does that mean members who don't currently offer sponsored baseball will be adding scholarship baseball?
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Post by Big D on Apr 19, 2013 20:38:44 GMT -5
Hmmm. What exactly does "Internal Growth" entail? Does that mean members who don't currently offer sponsored baseball will be adding scholarship baseball? It means that is an option.
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Post by Black PantherU on Apr 19, 2013 23:32:52 GMT -5
Hmmm. What exactly does "Internal Growth" entail? Does that mean members who don't currently offer sponsored baseball will be adding scholarship baseball? It means that is an option. CSU cut it. Maybe there's a hope they can bring it back? I know Green Bay doesn't have the money to bring in baseball.
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Post by Black PantherU on Apr 19, 2013 23:33:32 GMT -5
Hey guys, This is a link to a forum thread. The reason I post this thread is because there are two posts linked inside - one laying out the potential suitors for the Horizon League, the second what I would do if given that list. Link: PantherU's take on Horizon League Expansion
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Post by wsutommygun on Apr 20, 2013 5:57:25 GMT -5
Black PantherU, if any of the three schools could add baseball then I wish they would do it. I'd prefer to get more than just one more to add so, we don't have to go thru this again for awhile. What if the league or member schools have to help financially? Is that allowed? If a school like Cleveland State had baseball, have they maintained that facility? If everyone did do something to make it happen ( having a school bring back baseball ) then does that hurt the balance of Title IX? Anyway, not sure I want that to be an option ( but it is good to have options ). If best scenario is 4 schools then my best second option would include at least 3 of those schools rather than going in a different direction but, I think you cover the most likely colleges. I'd like to think we are closer to a resolution than it appears. Not sure what the delay is for. It would be nice to have everything settled for 2013-14.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Apr 20, 2013 6:13:14 GMT -5
I cannot believe I got sucked into reading both pages of PantherU's blog. I should have known better. Obviously all anybody can really do is speculate, and as much time and effort obviously went into that, it's not better than speculation...It does help paint a little bit of a geographical picture, but again, we are purely speculating. Outside of Oakland, and maybe RMU, it seems like, imo, that everything else is kind of a loss. Adding the Indiana teams gives us nothing but a nice short drive to see our teams play. But they are already bottom feeding an even weaker conference...why let them come bottom feed our conference? I'm all about our team succeeding, but I'm not sure we're in the same ballpark as far as stacking chips with these guys. I don't want to see Denver or the Dakota schools...just too far out there. I'm not convinced the league wants to expand that far west, as PU made good mention of travel issues in his blog. I guess as long as we maintain the AQ for baseball, WSU will be happy...but I guess there's no perfect scenario here. I just want it to be over, I'm sick of reading, posting, replying, on pure speculation.
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Post by wsutommygun on Apr 20, 2013 7:43:33 GMT -5
WSURaider09, what are you saying...that you won't read a thread dealing with expansion until it is a done deal? Of course, Black PantherU couldn't give any real news. He did get you to express your views on teams you'd prefer not to add. I think a lot of us agree with your last sentence though ( for what it is worth, teams I heard before last summer ended are still in the picture...but, I can only speculate ).
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Post by Black PantherU on Apr 20, 2013 10:51:04 GMT -5
I cannot believe I got sucked into reading both pages of PantherU's blog. I should have known better. Obviously all anybody can really do is speculate, and as much time and effort obviously went into that, it's not better than speculation...It does help paint a little bit of a geographical picture, but again, we are purely speculating. Outside of Oakland, and maybe RMU, it seems like, imo, that everything else is kind of a loss. Adding the Indiana teams gives us nothing but a nice short drive to see our teams play. But they are already bottom feeding an even weaker conference...why let them come bottom feed our conference? I'm all about our team succeeding, but I'm not sure we're in the same ballpark as far as stacking chips with these guys. I don't want to see Denver or the Dakota schools...just too far out there. I'm not convinced the league wants to expand that far west, as PU made good mention of travel issues in his blog. I guess as long as we maintain the AQ for baseball, WSU will be happy...but I guess there's no perfect scenario here. I just want it to be over, I'm sick of reading, posting, replying, on pure speculation. I thought the whole "What I would do if I were given these options" quote in my last post pretty much laid out that it was my opinion, so I don't know how you can feel suckered into it At the end of the day, I think Milwaukee, UIC and WSU are in the same boat - bring in schools with baseball, or at least add baseball at current schools. I don't know if it's possible anywhere currently in the conference. We know Green Bay is already pretty strapped financially, plus in case you haven't heard, we haven't had a home game yet - I don't know if GB is going to want to add it knowing that. CSU dropped their team, and Detroit seems to be going toward lacrosse. All three play softball, so I'm not sure what the Title IX implications would be (although we can safely assume CSU could just pick it back up).
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Post by Big D on Apr 20, 2013 10:58:17 GMT -5
Hey guys, This is a link to a forum thread. The reason I post this thread is because there are two posts linked inside - one laying out the potential suitors for the Horizon League, the second what I would do if given that list. Link: PantherU's take on Horizon League ExpansionJimmy, I like you best case scenario but I don't see it happening this year. I think Valpo and UIC screwed the rest of the HL over by trying to join the MVC with Loyola. I think we scared away the 2 biggest fish in the pond when 1/3 of our conference tried to jump ship. I hope the HL is able to expand by 4 in 2 phases. This year: I think we add Oakland and either NKU or Robert Morris. If you asked me a year ago I would have pushed for Robert Morris. Now I am warming up to the idea of NKU. I like how they have increased their athletic budget since they went D1. You included their basketball budgets in your breakdown on your site. I like to look at overall athletic budgets too. NKU went from under 6 million a year when they were D2 to 9.1 million this year. I love that commitment. If we added Oakland and NKU this summer I think it gives us a chance to add Belmont and Murray State next year. We showed this season that we could still be a top mid-major conference without Butler and I believe we were on track to adding both of those schools to the HL until Loyola, UIC, and Valpo scared them off. We finished this year ranked 12th. I think we will be that good or maybe even top 11 next year with Oakland and NKU. I think adding NKU would be a trade off to Loyola when it comes to RPI. They finished this year a little below Loyola, but they should be better next year. Oakland will be an upgrade and help the conference. I think the rest of the conference will be better overall. Valpo and Detroit will be down some, but I think UWGB and WSU will be better and off set that. I can't imagine UWM will be as bad as last year. They may not be great, but I think they will get back to be respectable enough to not hurt the conference next year. Next year: I think we will be able to add Belmont and Murray State if we can do a few things. 1. After adding Oakland and NKU this year we need to prove that we can remain a borderline top 10 conference. We have to look attractive to schools from lower conferences looking to move up. 2. We need to show some solidarity as a conference this next season. We cannot have a bunch of our members publicly looking to jump ship again. 3. We need the OVC to have a more typical year for that conference. Last year they had their best finish ever as a conference finishing ranked 16. That was a result of adding Belmont and Eastern Kentucky having one of it's bests seasons ever. The OVC is typically a 20+ rated conference. I think Belmont and Murray State will join the HL if we can remain in the 10-13 range as a conference next year and if the OVC drops down closer to 20 where they usually finish. We will be an attractive option to them. I think it's a gamble to expand in 2 phases like I am suggesting above, but I think it is something we are stuck with since we didn't show solidarity as a conference this past year.
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Post by Glory Days on Apr 20, 2013 18:34:31 GMT -5
I have to say I would really like those 4 schools too. It would be a strong conference with good travel partners, good north/south divisions, and the new schools would add some good recruiting territories to the HL. Belmont and Murray State would add some good name recognition to the HL. Oakland would be a solid team and great natural rival for Detroit. Northern Kentucky is the one school that we would be taking purely on potential, but they have good upside and have the potential to become a nice natural rival for us.
HL North Division: Green Bay/Milwaukee UIC/Valparaiso Detroit/Oakland
HL South Division: Youngstown State/Cleveland State Northern Kentucky/Wright State Belmont/Murray State
Team RPIs: Belmont 19 Valparaiso 58 Detroit 64 Murray State 117 Wright State 130 Oakland 152 Green Bay 160 UIC 169 Youngstown State 188 Cleveland State 199 Northern Kentucky 271 Milwaukee 307
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Post by Willie on Apr 20, 2013 18:46:55 GMT -5
I like you best case scenario but I don't see it happening this year. I think Valpo and UIC screwed the rest of the HL over by trying to join the MVC with Loyola. I think we scared away the 2 biggest fish in the pond when 1/3 of our conference tried to jump ship. I hope the HL is able to expand by 4 in 2 phases. This year: I think we add Oakland and either NKU or Robert Morris. If you asked me a year ago I would have pushed for Robert Morris. Now I am warming up to the idea of NKU. I like how they have increased their athletic budget since they went D1. You included their basketball budgets in your breakdown on your site. I like to look at overall athletic budgets too. NKU went from under 6 million a year when they were D2 to 9.1 million this year. I love that commitment. If we added Oakland and NKU this summer I think it gives us a chance to add Belmont and Murray State next year. We showed this season that we could still be a top mid-major conference without Butler and I believe we were on track to adding both of those schools to the HL until Loyola, UIC, and Valpo scared them off. We finished this year ranked 12th. I think we will be that good or maybe even top 11 next year with Oakland and NKU. I think adding NKU would be a trade off to Loyola when it comes to RPI. They finished this year a little below Loyola, but they should be better next year. Oakland will be an upgrade and help the conference. I think the rest of the conference will be better overall. Valpo and Detroit will be down some, but I think UWGB and WSU will be better and off set that. I can't imagine UWM will be as bad as last year. They may not be great, but I think they will get back to be respectable enough to not hurt the conference next year. Next year: I think we will be able to add Belmont and Murray State if we can do a few things. 1. After adding Oakland and NKU this year we need to prove that we can remain a borderline top 10 conference. We have to look attractive to schools from lower conferences looking to move up. 2. We need to show some solidarity as a conference this next season. We cannot have a bunch of our members publicly looking to jump ship again. 3. We need the OVC to have a more typical year for that conference. Last year they had their best finish ever as a conference finishing ranked 16. That was a result of adding Belmont and Eastern Kentucky having one of it's bests seasons ever. The OVC is typically a 20+ rated conference. I think Belmont and Murray State will join the HL if we can remain in the 10-13 range as a conference next year and if the OVC drops down closer to 20 where they usually finish. We will be an attractive option to them. I think it's a gamble to expand in 2 phases like I am suggesting above, but I think it is something we are stuck with since we didn't show solidarity as a conference this past year. I think we could get all 4 and maybe even this year. We know Oakland wants in. Their AD went public last year telling the world they want in the HL. I think NKU would jump at the chance too. They are in the Atlantic Sun which is a crappy conference that is a poor geographic fit for them. With former Wright State AD Mike Cusack leading their athletics right now I think they accept an invite on the spot. The 2 harder sells are Belmont and Murray State. I think Belmont is the more ambitious of the 2 and would be more inclined to come to the HL now. Even though we have lost 2 teams in the last 2 years, the HL is still a much better overall conference than the OVC and I think Belmont will see us as having more potential than the OVC. If we can get those 3, I think we would have a good shot at convincing Murray State to come too. Finding a home for their football team might be the biggest challenge.
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Post by CincyDrummer on Apr 20, 2013 20:52:54 GMT -5
I have not been, and am still not, very keen on an NKU possibility for the HL. The only good I could see coming out of it, for whatever it's worth, is that we could get a little more Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky/Southwest Ohio coverage, and that, if NKU really gets their act together, a fun little rivalry could shape up.
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Post by Glory Days on Apr 20, 2013 21:12:02 GMT -5
I have not been, and am still not, very keen on an NKU possibility for the HL. The only good I could see coming out of it, for whatever it's worth, is that we could get a little more Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky/Southwest Ohio coverage, and that, if NKU really gets their act together, a fun little rivalry could shape up. NKU might be the key to adding Belmont and Murray State. Besides being a better conference, the other selling point the HL has is the fact that we are a closely fit geographic conference. We are primarily a bus league so travel is cheaper for our members and our students don't have to miss too much time from the classroom. Adding NKU, Belmont, and Murray State allows the HL to split into north/south divisions with good travel partners that will still keep travel expenses low. Belmont and Murray State are going to be the southern most outliers in our conference. I think they will be much more comfortable coming to the conference with another southern school like NKU.
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