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Post by Class of '83 on Dec 16, 2012 0:38:57 GMT -5
Miami a big dog in Cincinnati. Please. People in Cincinnati care about UC, X, UK, Louisville, and probably even IU more than they care about Miami. Northern Ky is about as popular as Miami. What a joke. 98% of the Cincinnati population still thinks that NKU is still a D II school, if they even take the time to think about it. More like a math lesson for you. Northern Kentucky averaged ONE less fan than Miami last year. All of NKU's fans come from the Cincinnati area. Very few of Miami's fans actually come from Cincinnati. Most of the people that attend games are from Oxford, Middletown, or are students. Hence, more people in Cincinnati care about NKU than Miami. www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/pdfs/2012/2012+ncaa+mens+basketball+attendance
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Post by gerb on Dec 16, 2012 10:23:52 GMT -5
Good morning, everybody! Good win yesterday. Glad to come here and discuss WSU basketball with other friendly Raider fa-OHMYGODWHYISEVERYBODYARGUING?!
Why are we cannibalizing each other as fans here? Everyone on here is a fan. Cincy can't make it to a lot of games and made a point that may not have been entirely accurate but a positive point, nevertheless. He can't make it to a lot of games because he lives in Cincinnati. I live in Columbus and get off work at 7:00 so I haven't been to a game yet either. We still follow the program. We're still root just as hard as you do. Calm the hell down and enjoy the games. There's no reason to whip it out and see whose fandom is bigger.
Now let's talk basketball. How are the Redhawks doing under the new regime? Who are their big go-to guys? How will this game play out?
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Post by Raider Pride on Dec 16, 2012 10:38:33 GMT -5
Why are we cannibalizing each other as fans here? Everyone on here is a fan. Cincy can't make it to a lot of games and made a point that may not have been entirely accurate but a positive point, nevertheless. He can't make it to a lot of games because he lives in Cincinnati. Dude, read the thread again. No one is ripping on him because he can't make it to games because he lives in Cincy. I live in Columbus and cannot attend games either. I was pointing out that it is idiotic to worry about what people in Cincy think of Wright State because they aren't going to come to games. If our die hard fans that live in Cincy cannot even make it to games, then why would we try to court other people from Cincy to be fans? That was the point. It would be just as idiotic to start courting people from Columbus to be Wright State fans. It is just as much as a waste of time. We have a hard enough time getting our own students and locals to come out to games. Any time and energy we spend on building a fan base should be spent on locals.
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Post by udstillsucks on Dec 17, 2012 14:27:22 GMT -5
It's word choice people. Using the word "idiotic" to describe thoughts and views implies that the person saying them is an idiot. Maybe people should brush up on their english courses or break out the thesaurus and rethink how they describe someone else's views on here...There is nothing wrong with trying to get fans to come from Cincy or Cbus. Should WSU make is a high priority, probably not. But running a 20 second commercial on WLW, TVN or the ESPN radio channels for Cincy or Cbus periodically to promote games wouldn't be a bad idea. Getting the head coach or any player with a local tie to Cincy or Cbus on local radio there for a 5 minute interview wouldn't hurt either. Obviously, the focus should be the 4 to 6 county region immediately around the campus.
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Post by Raider Pride on Dec 17, 2012 18:50:43 GMT -5
There is nothing wrong with trying to get fans to come from Cincy or Cbus. Should WSU make is a high priority, probably not. But running a 20 second commercial on WLW, TVN or the ESPN radio channels for Cincy or Cbus periodically to promote games wouldn't be a bad idea. You may not like the word idiotic, but what you just said is idiotic from a business stand point. Wright State has a very tight budget and limited marketing resources. We rarely even get to put on TV ads in the Dayton area. We need to put resources into areas where we will see the greatest return. Marketing to fans from an area over an hour away that already has multiple local basketball programs with more history and success than us is idiotic. It just is. Ohio State football is king in Columbus. If UC decided to put up a billboard or ran radio ads in Columbus to promote their football team, it would be idiotic and a huge waste of time. There is no difference between that and us advertising in the heart of UC and X basketball.
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Post by mrose on Dec 17, 2012 19:55:45 GMT -5
Comparing UC vs. OSU football to Wright State basketball vs. other southwestern Ohio basketball programs isn’t even on par with comparing Apples to other table fruit. There’s no comparison to OSU football.
If Wright State does what you suggest, Raider Up, then the program will never resonate with people outside of Fairborn—unless we become a perennial top 25 program. To suggest we shouldn’t market in areas with Div. I programs that have “more history and success” than WSU is naïve. In fact, if we were to use that as our guideline we wouldn’t even market in Fairborn as that territory belongs to UD—a school with “more history and success.”
So, that leaves us with Celina and St. Mary’s (which is really UD territory), along with a Lake Campus to market to; which is a fraction of the Cincinnati market and further away.
Technically, the cincy market stretches up to the southern Montgomery and Greene county lines. Should WSU ignore Springboro?
Heck, I know quite a few faculty and students reside in Warren, Butler, and Clinton counties.
How many people who follow WSU watch FOX sports (Cincinnati), WKRC CBS Channel 12, WCPO Channel 9 (ABC), WXIX 19 (FOX), and listen to Cincinnati radio stations such as WLW, WCKY, WEBN, 96 Rock, etc., etc.? I bet it's in the thousands--and the potential WSU audience is in the tens of thousands.
I don’t believe anybody is advocating a billboard sign off of Vine Street, but it’s just as ridiculous to ignore the cincy market completely since it’s technically in our backyard.
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Post by Raider Pride on Dec 17, 2012 20:35:13 GMT -5
Comparing UC vs. OSU football to Wright State basketball vs. other southwestern Ohio basketball programs isn’t even on par with comparing Apples to other table fruit. There’s no comparison to OSU football. If Wright State does what you suggest, Raider Up, then the program will never resonate with people outside of Fairborn—unless we become a perennial top 25 program. To suggest we shouldn’t market in areas with Div. I programs that have “more history and success” than WSU is naïve. You have very selective reading skills my friend. I said "marketing to fans from an area over an hour away that already has multiple local basketball programs with more history and success than us is idiotic." We already have enough trouble competing for fans against UD in this region. They spend 100 times more than us on radio, print, and TV ads. Every cent we have should be going towards marketing to the non-UD fans in this area we have a shot at. We do not have a realistic shot at attracting fans that live an hour away and have TWO top 25 teams in their backyard. If you ask a first year marketing major they will tell you that it is a waste of time and money marketing in a place where you have no shot to recoup your investment.
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Post by mrose on Dec 17, 2012 20:58:44 GMT -5
Well, then, who are the “fans” you would like to market to?
Are there not WSU fans in the Cincinnati market? I’ve already pointed out, there are many WSU alumni, students, and faculty in the Cincinnati market that reside in northern Warren, Butler and Clinton counties. That’s our backyard—I don’t care what any freshman marketing major says.
We can’t just target UD fans—that would be asinine. Would that task not become much more difficult if the Flyers’ become part of a new Big East? Of course it will, you’ve already acknowledged how difficult it is currently.
Wright State will have to cast a larger net in a bigger pond---not a small net in a small pond—to attract more attention of the casual fan.
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Post by Raider Pride on Dec 17, 2012 21:09:55 GMT -5
Well, then, who are the “fans” you would like to market to? Are there not WSU fans in the Cincinnati market? I’ve already pointed out, there are many WSU alumni, students, and faculty in the Cincinnati market that reside in northern Warren, Butler and Clinton counties. That’s our backyard—I don’t care what any freshman marketing major says. We can’t just target UD fans—that would be asinine. Would that task not become much more difficult if the Flyers’ become part of a new Big East? Of course it will, you’ve already acknowledged how difficult it is currently. Wright State will have to cast a larger net in a bigger pond---not a small net in a small pond—to attract more attention of the casual fan. You seriously cannot read. I said we need to market to the non-UD fans in this area. There are plenty of college basketball fans that live in this area that either do not like UD, cannot get UD tickets or cannot afford UD tickets. UD averages between 12-13,000 fans a game. There is around 140,000 people that live in the Miami Valley, so we have 127,000 non-UD fans to try to get to come to games. We also have almost 17,000 students on campus to try to attract to games. I don't know if you know this or not but at one time in the early 1990s, we used to average over 8000 fans a game. Most of those people were casual college basketball fans that lived in the Miami Valley and/or students. They weren't fans that lived in Cincy or Columbus. We need to start winning games again and start attracting those fans back to the Nutter Center.
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Post by Big D on Dec 17, 2012 21:20:36 GMT -5
A lot of you need to realize that Wright State has some major financial constaints to work within. We did not participate in any of the second tier post season tournaments over the years in part because we did not have the finances to do so. We schedule the way we do in large part because of our lack of finances. We took money games on the road last year (the OSU/Florida tournament) so we could afford the trip to Italy. We are on a crappy third tier radio channel for men's basketball games compared to our old second tier radio channel because it saves us a lousy 20K a year. We don't pay for Chris Collis to have a partner on away games for broadcasts due to finances. We simply do not have the resources to advertise in cities an hour away from campus. We really only market within a 30 minute drive of campus. I'm sure we would like to do more, but financially we cannot afford it now. You can argue that we need to upgrade all of the above things. I'll completely agree with you, but you need to come up with the money first. Right now, we are trying to get the most bang for our buck with the limited resources we have.
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Post by CincyDrummer on Dec 18, 2012 0:01:07 GMT -5
A lot of you need to realize that Wright State has some major financial constaints to work within. We did not participate in any of the second tier post season tournaments over the years in part because we did not have the finances to do so. We schedule the way we do in large part because of our lack of finances. We took money games on the road last year (the OSU/Florida tournament) so we could afford the trip to Italy. We are on a crappy third tier radio channel for men's basketball games compared to our old second tier radio channel because it saves us a lousy 20K a year. We don't pay for Chris Collis to have a partner on away games for broadcasts due to finances. We simply do not have the resources to advertise in cities an hour away from campus. We really only market within a 30 minute drive of campus. I'm sure we would like to do more, but financially we cannot afford it now. You can argue that we need to upgrade all of the above things. I'll completely agree with you, but you need to come up with the money first. Right now, we are trying to get the most bang for our buck with the limited resources we have. Big D, do we have any consistent, significant alumni/donors who assist the program when new initiatives wish to be undertaken or when times are particularly tough? Have we fallen on harder times since our NCAA March visit, or are we just trying to preserve with these recent adjustments (as you've already mentioned)? You would think that some new donors would have popped up from the relatively recent success, but then again I don't really know anything whatsoever about how all the behind-the-scenes stuff works.
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Post by Big D on Dec 18, 2012 7:34:11 GMT -5
Big D, do we have any consistent, significant alumni/donors who assist the program when new initiatives wish to be undertaken or when times are particularly tough? Have we fallen on harder times since our NCAA March visit, or are we just trying to preserve with these recent adjustments (as you've already mentioned)? You would think that some new donors would have popped up from the relatively recent success, but then again I don't really know anything whatsoever about how all the behind-the-scenes stuff works. Have you been living in a cave for the past 5 years? Our country is in the biggest recession it has been in since the great depression. People are worried about paying their bills and feeding their kids. Spending money on entertainment like college sporting events isn't a priority for the average person, so attendance has been down. Even with the success Brownell had here early on at WSU, attendance never spiked as much as we wanted. In part that was due to the economy and IMO our tickets have been over priced for some time. Men's basketball is the only revenue producing sport at WSU. If fans aren't coming to games, we aren't making any money. The economy has also severely hurt the average man donation that we used to get. Big donors are still giving. Updates like the turf for our baseball field and our new center video board at the NC are due to big donations to the university. It's the average joe that used to donate $50-100 to WSU that are way down. Those types of donations are the life blood to an athletic department along with revenue from ticket sales. This is one of the biggest reasons I go on a rant about the HLN every year. I absolutely hate that we do not charge for it. How many OOC games have our fans spent $5-10 to see this year already. All of those broadcasts have sucked, but our fans were more than happy to pay just so they could see our Raiders play. The HLN is 100X better than most of those broadcasts, yet we give it away for nothing. WSU could use the money it would produce. WSU could use the money we lose from fans that don't attend games, but watch the product for free at home. It's easy for fans to bitch and moan about our athletic department. Well, if we want us to have a first class athletic department we have to spend money. We need to go to games when we can. We need to spend some cash at the concession stands at games. We need to bring a friend or 2 to games. We need to write a check to WSU when we can. It's not all about the big donors. It's the average fan that makes the biggest difference.
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Post by wsutommygun on Dec 18, 2012 8:23:22 GMT -5
I don't want to step on BigD's toes concerning his response but, last year we were told that there was a waiting list for floor seats. If people renewed, I wish they would use them ( I suspect there may be some open seats ). 2013 could create a new problem. Although it would be cheaper just to pay taxes, if you can deduct contributions I am sure it might influence the amount for those that have itemized in the past. I can't imagine scheduling anything else on a night WSU has a home game no matter the opponent but, I disagree about HLN. I have watched other WSU sports which I probably would not have paid for...don't watch home men's basketball games because I'm there but, I appreciate it when other schools don't charge when we are away and I have not gone along. I listened to Chris on the radio the other day. So far, I have not paid to watch ( but, I do have Time Warner's sports pass and once in awhile a game is available that way ).
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Post by freewind on Dec 18, 2012 8:27:05 GMT -5
I'm going to make the guess the HLN is using the same idea as Facebook did. Wait for it to get popular before starting to charge people to use it.
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Post by thatbaldraiderfan on Dec 18, 2012 20:36:02 GMT -5
Didn't the HL charge to use the HLN for a conference tournament a few years ago? What were the results of that?
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