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Post by hhgreen on Jan 27, 2014 13:21:01 GMT -5
I'm not to sure about your last comment. I think that there are people watching the games we play and are wondering what's going on. Your right about one thing though, if Michael Jordan, Mose Malone and the like were on this team they would be sitting the bench and be playing defense defense defense.
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Post by Raider Fanatic on Jan 27, 2014 14:07:02 GMT -5
I'm not to sure about your last comment. I think that there are people watching the games we play and are wondering what's going on. Your right about one thing though, if Michael Jordan, Mose Malone and the like were on this team they would be sitting the bench and be playing defense defense defense. I honestly do not know why any athlete would want to play for Donlon. If you make a campus visit and watch one of our practices and/or watch any of our games you know what to expect from him. He is all about disciplined defense and methodical offense to run time off the clock and find a good high percentage shot. I understand why smart average athletes that can shoot the ball want to play for him. His system works for those kids because it will maximize their skills. I don't understand why someone like Jeran would want to play for him knowing that Donlon wants him to conform to his system rather than Donlon finding a way to get him to excel with his skill sets. That being said, Donlon's system can be successful. It was successful for Brownell at WSU and it is successful for him now at Clemson. It is also basically the same system Butler dominated the HL with for the last decade. You have to recruit the right type of players to have success with it though and our current group of players is not right for this system. We have too many athletes that can't utilize their skills in this offense and we have too many average athletes that just don't shoot well enough to run Donlon's system right. My guess is we will limp through the remainder of the season finishing in the top 1/3 of the HL but won't make post season play. For better or worst, that isn't going to get Donlon fired. He will go into next season with a roster that suits his system better and hopefully will have better results.
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Post by wolf41 on Jan 27, 2014 14:39:33 GMT -5
I agree with much of what you say, but I'm not convinced the we'll finish in the top third of the HL. I agree that it is doable, but to do so, IMO, requires us to beat at least Milwaukee on this trip. If we do that we'll be 6-4 when we get home from GB. IF we can win our 4 home games and the game at Oakland while losing at UIC we'll be 11-5. Not bad, and it could be good enough for a top 2 or 3 finish. BUT, I think those 4 wins at home plus one at Oakland will be very tough to attain...as well as the game at Milwaukee.
Donlon has recruited some good guards for next season, but they aren't All-Americans. They are good players at the HS level and haven't played at this level yet, AND, most of them will be freshmen. We can see how much court time Davis and Howell are getting this year as freshmen. So while I'm always hopeful, I have come to realize that it doesn't do much to help the team. I still think it will be all defense for Donlon, while we lose the battle for rebounds and employee an offensive scheme that is designed to run the clock and accept whatever offense that happens on each trip down the court. Yes, we'll probably have more potential from the arc, but the more we shoot from outside means we are failing to attack inside for easier shots AND forfeiting opportunities at the line, which has contributed plenty in our HL wins this season.
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Post by Fastbreak on Jan 27, 2014 18:50:59 GMT -5
He will go into next season with a roster that suits his system better and hopefully will have better results. Donlon is also still trying to add a JUCO center to this class.
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Post by hhgreen on Jan 27, 2014 19:16:47 GMT -5
It would be nice to have one. Billy is just now starting to use Pacher in the paint a little more. I don't know if AJ had the skill set to play in the paint until the middle of last year though. First two and a half years were played outside the 3 point line.
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Post by Dr J on Jan 27, 2014 20:24:36 GMT -5
If he gets a JUCO center who will be leaving?
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Post by hhgreen on Jan 27, 2014 20:57:15 GMT -5
None of the juniors are leaving unless we have one ready to graduate. It don't take a genius to figure there are 2 players that sit the bench who are not buying into defense defense defense or can't do it. It will be a shame too. Whoever they are it would be nice to see them go to Green Bay or some other Horizon League team so they could show us what they can do.
Possibly a de-commit from a recruit?
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Post by Raider Fanatic on Jan 27, 2014 21:33:51 GMT -5
If he gets a JUCO center who will be leaving? We haven't made it through a single season since Donlon has been here (including his time as an assistant coach under Brownell) that we didn't have at least 1 offseason transfer.
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Post by Raider3G on Jan 27, 2014 21:39:06 GMT -5
Every year someone has transferred or decommitted. If Donlon wasn't still recruiting for next year I'd be worried. I don't know enough to speculate on who would be the one (or ones) to transfer, but given all the guards we have coming back and those recruited, seems like it would start there.
Unless there is a total collapse or rash of injuries, I see this team still finishing second or third...if that is the case, and they can win a game or two in the HL tourney (regardless of whether we win the tourney or not) I see BD being brought back. Big D has also stated that this recruiting class will help bring him back. My only question is besides Thomasson and perhaps Grant Evans, which players are typically better than what we've recruited in the past that would help bring BD back? Regardless, a team that finishes 2 or 3 in the HL probably is a 10-11 win team in the league...if we win a game in the HL tourney, we're around 20 wins again. Will Bob Grant have the chutzpah to not bring back a guy that has three seasons of 19+ wins?
But what could change him coming back besides a total collapse? There have been some rumblings on this board that "big-time" donors aren't happy, so perhaps if they unify and just push hard enough that could change things. What we don't know is if anything will change those individuals' attitude toward bringing BD back. I don't have the money or connections to really know what those donors think or will do.
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Post by Raider Fanatic on Jan 27, 2014 21:42:16 GMT -5
None of the juniors are leaving unless we have one ready to graduate. Hopkins is a 4th year junior after sitting out last season. He should be on track to graduate this year. It don't take a genius to figure there are 2 players that sit the bench who are not buying into defense defense defense or can't do it. It will be a shame too. Davis already sat out last year as a non-qualifier. If he transferred he would lose a year of eligibility and I doubt he would want to sit out another year after sitting out last year and barely playing this year. With Young, Darling, and Pacher graduating, he knows he has a good chance of starting next year or at least be in the 2 deep. I would be more worried about Howell. He isn't playing hardly at all this year. He is behind Reggie and Hopkins now on the depth chart and next year we are bringing in 2 other guards that also play PG. Possibly a de-commit from a recruit? All of our current recruits are signed. They cannot just de-commit. They would have to be released from their LOI by WSU.
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Post by Big D on Jan 27, 2014 22:00:34 GMT -5
Big D has also stated that this recruiting class will help bring him back. My only question is besides Thomasson and perhaps Grant Evans, which players are typically better than what we've recruited in the past that would help bring BD back? Our 2014 class is better suited for what Donlon wants out of his team. We have a lot of guards that are really athletic this year that are having a hard time finding their niche in our offense( Young, Dixon, Hopkins) and a few average athletes that just aren't good outside shooters (Vest, Griffin). These guys just don't suit Donlon's motion offense well. You really need 3 guards on the court that shoot well from 3 and are aggressive. Our best team under Brownell/Donlon was their first year here when we had 3 dynamic guards that could all shoot well from outside: Wood, Duggins, and Brown. Their ability to score from outside kept other teams honest. They couldn't double team anyone (because everyone could score) and they couldn't play zone against us because we could shoot well enough from outside to light them up if they did. We are adding 4 really good guards to this class. Evans and Benzinger are shooting close to 50% from 3 this year. Thomasson and Mitchell are both shooting >40% from 3 too. When you add in Reggie and JT's ability to shoot from 3, next years team is going to be able to light it up from outside and will suit Donlon's motion offense well. The last member of our 2014 class is Roderick Davis. I haven't seen much of him, but Donlon likes to compare him to a larger/more physical version of Cole Darling. The one thing we really are missing in this class is a true big man that will be able to step in and rebound well for us. It looks like Donlon is working on that looking to the JUCO ranks.
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Post by hhgreen on Jan 27, 2014 22:05:53 GMT -5
Can the coach drop one because of grades and or because the coach had a change of heart about what he wants for a player?
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Post by Big D on Jan 27, 2014 22:11:31 GMT -5
Can the coach drop one because of grades and or because the coach had a change of heart about what he wants for a player? If they don't make the grades to get into WSU than their LOI becomes void. That isn't going to happen. All of our commitments are really good students and we wouldn't want to drop any of them anyways. They are all really good fits for our system.
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Post by hhgreen on Jan 27, 2014 22:34:02 GMT -5
What makes recruiting a kid tough for Billy is he can watch the kids make scoring records at the high school level but how well will they adapt to not scoring that much and play the BD defensive game.
Watched a lot of film footage of these kids on the recruiting section and these kids are good scorers for sure.
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Post by Bomber on Feb 2, 2014 11:37:31 GMT -5
I don't know if a good recruiting class for his system is a good enough reason to keep Donlon. This class is still lacking a post player and even if Donlon is able to sign one I highly doubt he will use him next year. Donlon has 2 big flaws that I think are always going to hold him back from being successful. 1. He doesn't have a balance between offense and defense. Until he cares what happens on offense as much as he cares about what happens on defense we are going to be stuck in this same cycle of losing close games. 2. He refuses to use a traditional lineup of 2 guards, 2 forwards and a center. There is nothing wrong with a 3 guard lineup IF you play 2 legit post players that can rebound and play defense. Donlon plays 3 guards, a small forward and a center at best. He often plays 3 guards and 2 small forwards. You cannot do that and be successful against D1 teams. The most disappointing thing about this is that Donlon blames his players when they get beat up on the boards by teams with traditional lineups.
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