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Post by rock70 on Jan 27, 2013 9:17:52 GMT -5
I saw a good post by Willie WSU over on RRB and I wanted to bring it over to this board. My friends and I often sit in the stands scratching our heads at what players garner the most minutes while other seemingly more talented players get limited minutes. Willie's post below discussed many of the same questions me and my friends have talked about over and over so I hope Willie doesn't mind me sharing his thoughts over here. We have come to the conclusion that Billy is simply more comfortable with "try hard" players because that was the type of player he was so that is were his comfort level rest. I honestly don't think he knows what to do with players like Jerren Young and Miles Dixon because they don't fit his "mold" of player that he typically recruits. We laugh ( ok get mad as heck ) when either makes a mistake and is instantly taken out of the game while the "try hard" players can mess up over and over and rarely get pulled. Did anyone notice last night when Jerren stepped out of bounds that he automatically started to the bench assuming he was coming out because he made a mistake??? If that would have been other players that would not have happened. Players like Jerren and Miles can take this program to the next level but Billy needs to get comfortable with them and figure out how to use them and then ACTUALLY PLAY THEM REAL MINUTES. Thanks again to Willie WSU for his post. raiderroundball.yuku.com/topic/3003/Who-is-running-the-show-at-WSU#.UQUzz79ZVbE
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Post by wsuraider09 on Jan 27, 2013 9:40:16 GMT -5
I've watched every game this season that I could get my eyes on...and I have been going around and around on this all season...
I've said it before, Matt Vest has started EVERY game this season. (the only player who has) He has played with this team chemistry longer than some of the other guys, but I don't think this makes you a starter night in and night out. His defense is average, and his shot taking is well below-average. If he's not driving in, his shots are incredibly flat, and are lucky to catch the front iron. I don't know what the deal is, but that's the first thing I would change.
Kendall get's starts because of his defense...and should be playing 25-30 minutes a game, assuming we aren't in dire need of points, as he's not a great consistent scorer. He has shown some great signs this season, but again, not a pure scorer.
Sledge- nothing to say, starts because he's our best interior presence. He needs to learn to go up with authority and slam the ball down..or better yet, go straight up, and take a block. I feel like he takes the easy way out, and it doesn't always lead to the ball going through the twine.
Arceneaux- Typically the glue of the offense. I don't know what's up his bum the last 2 games, but he just doesn't seem like the same player. He's not looking for quality shots, or running the offense, and is chucking up ill-advised shots. I understand that people want him taken out, but because BD hasn't given Bobo any time to play really, I have a hard time seeing Joe and Kendall giving us a lot of production if they were our 1 and 2 in the game.
Darling gets the majority of the starts because he is a quality player IMO. The last few games he has shown some interior post play that has made me proud to see him develop. He is solid on defense, and continues to maintain a decent 3 point shot. I like him a lot. I wish he didn't have an injury to his shoulder every game, is he still hurt???
That's been our regular starting 5....
However,
I love Miles and Jerran off the bench currently. Jerran is our best athletic guy on the team. Period. He is so strong and makes aggressive moves towards the basket. He can also get a block or two, and get a nice slam in a fast break.
Miles looks like the best 'real' player, I say that...what I mean is he is the guy on our team that reminds me of players on ESPN playing at better D1 schools. He loves the jump stop, and is a great decision maker. He doesn't take stupid 3pt shots, and is always looking to drive, or dish to an open opponent. However, I feel like he feels like he should be playing more, and may be a risk of transfer after the season, just a thought.
Yoho is our best 3 point shooter, but is lousy on defense. He seems to always get calls when he's playing down low. I think he realizes he's not as big or strong as the 5 he is usually guarding, and just seems to get in trouble. Like OP said, Yoho shouldn't be guarding the 5. He should be in the game anytime we are down, or need a clutch shot. Yoho can hit a clutch shot, I'm not sure if I've ever seen Sledge or Vest hit a 'clutch shot'
Having said all of that, with no doubt in my mind...or regular starters need to be: Arceneaux, Griffin, Dixon, Young, and Sledge...
But I don't see BD getting off of his Matt Vest horse- so we probably won't ever see this.
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Post by Willie on Jan 27, 2013 10:33:14 GMT -5
We have come to the conclusion that Billy is simply more comfortable with "try hard" players because that was the type of player he was so that is were his comfort level rest. Sorry, I don't buy your theory. I think if you really look at the way Brownell and Donlon have given out playing time over the years you will see that they both over rely on experience. They get a comfort level with a player they know and go with that player over someone newer to the program. They have only really given young/new players extended playing time when we had no other options. The biggest reason is that the veteran player understands and plays our team defense better. Young, for example, is a very good one on one defender, but he still struggles with our team defense. He gambles too much trying to get steals and he doesn't help fill the land quick enough when another player looses his man in the lane. Unfortunately, Donlon cares much much more about our defense than he does about our offense. Until he cares about both ends of the court equally, I think we will struggle to bring in talented players.
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Post by Rush the Court on Jan 27, 2013 10:48:44 GMT -5
Young is also playing the same position as our best starter, Cole Darling. I wish Donlon would use him at the 3 more. A starting line up of Reggie, Kendall, Jerran, cole, and Taveras makes a lot of sense to me.
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Post by Raider Grad on Jan 27, 2013 10:53:58 GMT -5
Miles looks like the best 'real' player, I say that...what I mean is he is the guy on our team that reminds me of players on ESPN playing at better D1 schools. He loves the jump stop, and is a great decision maker. He doesn't take stupid 3pt shots, and is always looking to drive, or dish to an open opponent. However, I feel like he feels like he should be playing more, and may be a risk of transfer after the season, just a thought. Dixon is a 4th year junior. He took a medical red-shirt after he got hurt his sophomore year at HBU. He cannot transfer to another D1 school because he doesn't have enough eligibility to sit out a year.
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Post by Raider4Life on Jan 27, 2013 11:08:34 GMT -5
Young is also playing the same position as our best starter, Cole Darling. I wish Donlon would use him at the 3 more. A starting line up of Reggie, Kendall, Jerran, cole, and Taveras makes a lot of sense to me. I think Donlon's biggest flaw is that he is obsessed with his 3 guard line up and he should be focused on his best 5 man line up. I actually do not have a problem with a 3 guard/2 forward line up if it suits your personnel the best. If you have 3 great guards that can shoot from 3 like we did with DaShaun, Vaughn, and Todd Brown running a 3 guard line up is a no brainer. Our current guards do not shoot well from 3 at all. Reggie is 34%. Matt is 26%. Kendall is 30%. Even our back up guards shoot bad from 3. Dixon is 26%. Bramanti is 0%. I do not understand why we do not go with a bigger line up when we can. Young should be starting at 3. Yoho should be playing more at the 3. Both should be getting PT at the 4 when Cole comes out. Sledge and Pacher should get all of the minutes at the 5. We should be trying to get the ball inside on every possession and kick it our for MID-RANGE jump shots that our guards can make. We never look for those shots. We either take it inside for a lay up or we take 3s. No one utilizes a mid range jumper any more. And if anyone should be taking 3s, it should be our interior players. Yoho is 46%. Young is 41% and Darling is 36%. They take more high percentage shots than our guards.
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Post by Raider Fanatic on Jan 27, 2013 13:05:21 GMT -5
My absolute biggest frustration with Donlon and his rotation is that he doesn't give Bobo Drummond any playing time. Donlon has spent the last 7 years of his life trying to get some in roads in recruiting in Illinois. We finally land 2 Illinois recruits (from the top AAU program in the country) and Donlon doesn't play either one. I understand why Roddy isn't playing. He came to WSU late, he had surgery and missed most of the preseason's practices and he also had to make the transition from high school center to college SF. He should have just been red shirted. The same cannot be said of Drummond. He was a highly sought after recruit. He signed with Southern Illinois over an offer from Illinois last fall. He re-openned his recruitment after Southern Illinois went through a coaching change last spring. He signed with WSU over offers from UC and Kansas State. He was the starting PG for the best AAU program in the country and the starting PG for a top 10 prep school last year. Why the heck isn't he getting at least a few minutes every game. He hasn't played in over 1/2 of our games this year. The 10 that he did see the court in, he only averaged 5 minutes. most of those games he only played 1 minute or less. Reggie is streaky as hell. He can be a superstar one game and play like crap the next. There is no reason whatsoever that we should be playing him as many minutes as we are and not give Bobo a chance on the court.
The kid is going to transfer at the end of the year at this rate. We will lose a good basketball talent and blow a chance at future recruits from that area if that happens.
Here are a few of Bobo's highlight tapes from high school. Do you think he should we sitting on the bench?
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Post by Fastbreak on Jan 27, 2013 14:11:43 GMT -5
I have a similar fear, Raider Fanatic, that Drummond and Roddy won't be here next year. Many fans would probably say who cares, because neither guy plays much. I do. We don't have any seniors this year. The problem is that we will be very upperclassman heavy next year with 9 players that are juniors or seniors: Pacher, Darling, Vest, Young, Dixon, Arceneaux, Griffin, Sledge, and Hopkins. We need some underclassmen too to keep the pipeline rolling.
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Post by raiders93 on Jan 27, 2013 14:16:10 GMT -5
I've been saying these things for awhile in reference to Drummond. He is a highly talented PG, highly recruited by other high profile programs, and Billy gives him NO OPPORTUNITY. That has been my main issue with BD. I can't stand the idea that you have to have so much experience under your belt to be a trusted player. Obviously there are teaching moments along the way but that's why the game is played. He will be gone next year and we will be stuck with Reggie another two years and him playing 35 minutes a game. I like in Bobo that he distributes the ball so well. With the potential we have in our current squad, he could take everyone else to a new level that we aren't aware of yet. BUT, this is all speculation as he hasn't had a chance to prove ANYTHING. Very frustrating.
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Post by wsunumbaonekidfan on Jan 27, 2013 14:40:55 GMT -5
Nobody on this board is there in practice. Let's stop pretending like we know the best players to fit the raider's gameplan. Jerran should absolutely not start over Cole. Cole is our best player. Jerran is very athletic and shows a lot of potential. He is also very raw. He turns the ball over alot. He over plays on defense and loses his man. He would not be able to play starter minutes because he would foul out every time.
If Bobo was playing better than Joe in practice, he would be our backup point guard. Neither of them play real game minutes so we as fans can't say Bobo is better than Joe. None of us has a clue.
Matt is the one of the hardest worker's on the team. ABOVE average defense, average shot. "He is lucky to hit the front iron" is an absolutely ridiculous exaggeration. He is a good passer, and a solid rebounder for a guard.
Miles doesn't play more minutes because Kendall is the best defensive player on the team. Also, while Miles has the unique athletic ability to jump over guys and get his own shot, the ball goes in less than half the time.
Fans need to stop being so fickle. When we are winning, the lineup is special. When we are losing, Donlon only plays "try-hards".
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Post by Sixth Man on Jan 27, 2013 15:20:28 GMT -5
Nobody on this board is there in practice. Let's stop pretending like we know the best players to fit the raider's gameplan. I call horse crap and Taveras Sledge is my proof. Many fans were screaming for coach to stop playing AJ so much and give Sledge a chance earlier this year. It didn't happen until AJ got hurt. Once Sledge was able to play some extended time without the constant fear of getting the quick hook every time he made a simple mistake he has flourished. Everyone is not a great practice player and many great practice players choke under the spotlight in real games. Jerran should absolutely not start over Cole. Cole is our best player. Jerran is very athletic and shows a lot of potential. He is also very raw. He turns the ball over a lot. He over plays on defense and loses his man. He would not be able to play starter minutes because he would foul out every time. Find a post where someone says Young should start instead of Cole. It isn't out there. Our fans want Young to start at the 3. And if you think he would foul out of every game, I call horse crap again. People said the same thing about Sledge because he has the tendency to pick up fouls in bunches too. Once Sledge started getting extended playing time his fouls went down. Players like Sledge and Young come off the bench and try to make too much happen in a short period of time because they are trying to prove themselves and earn more PT. If they don't have to worry about the quick hook, they play more relaxed and don't foul as much. Coach also gives Young the hardest defensive assignments when he is in games and he loves to say that Young can guard the 1-5 positions. You don't praise someones defense like that if you are afraid they would foul out if they started. If Bobo was playing better than Joe in practice, he would be our backup point guard. Neither of them play real game minutes so we as fans can't say Bobo is better than Joe. None of us has a clue. I don't know which team you have been following but Bramanti does get extended court time. He has played in 20 of 21 games and averages 11 minutes a game. In his time on the court, he has shown that he can be a good defender but does next to nothing on the offensive end of the court. Bobo has not been given a chance in games. Like Sledge, some players need an actual chance on the court to prove them self. Matt is the one of the hardest worker's on the team. ABOVE average defense, average shot. "He is lucky to hit the front iron" is an absolutely ridiculous exaggeration. He is a good passer, and a solid rebounder for a guard. Once again, I don't know what team you have been watching but it isn't Wright State. Vest is shooting 42% from the field, but he is only shooting 26% from 3 and only 52% from the FT line. His overall stats are: 5.5 points and 3.7 rebounds while playing 25 minutes a game. Not the stats you want from your 3. As I mentioned above, most fans would prefer to see Young start instead of Vest. He only plays 15 minutes a game and puts up better numbers than Vest can in 25 minutes a game. He averages 6.7 points and 3.7 rebounds in those 15 minutes and shoots 53% from the field, 41% from 3, and 67% from the FT line. He is also a much better defender than Vest. Coach always has Kendall, Young, and Bramanti defend our opponent's best players.
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Post by raiders93 on Jan 27, 2013 17:44:38 GMT -5
Nailed it 6th. The only difference I would like to see is Jerran splitting more time or perhaps starting in place of Matt. That and Bobo splitting some more time with Reggie. I think that could get us to a level of play which we have t seen yet. I disagree a bit on Joe. He like Griffin is primarily a defensive guy, and very good on that end o the court, but both of them, while not averaging a lot, can hit reverse lay ups, etc by creating a shot which not many others outside Reggie and miles have shown. I think we have a lot of athleticism and intelligence being wasted on the bench though with no opportunities.
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Post by rock70 on Jan 27, 2013 20:42:09 GMT -5
We have come to the conclusion that Billy is simply more comfortable with "try hard" players because that was the type of player he was so that is were his comfort level rest. Sorry, I don't buy your theory. I think if you really look at the way Brownell and Donlon have given out playing time over the years you will see that they both over rely on experience. They get a comfort level with a player they know and go with that player over someone newer to the program. They have only really given young/new players extended playing time when we had no other options. The biggest reason is that the veteran player understands and plays our team defense better. Young, for example, is a very good one on one defender, but he still struggles with our team defense. He gambles too much trying to get steals and he doesn't help fill the land quick enough when another player looses his man in the lane. Unfortunately, Donlon cares much much more about our defense than he does about our offense. Until he cares about both ends of the court equally, I think we will struggle to bring in talented players. Good post Willie! You might be right that Billy prefers veteran who knows his system but then that begs the question, why would any JUCO come here is he knows he won't get minutes even is he is better then the "system" guy and has a ton more upside? We know that Billy trust Jerren to defend because he had him defending Ray McCallum at Detroit for stretches and he also had him defending UIC's stud point guard ( #4 ) last night even when Kendall was in the game so you don't lose much if any defense if you start Jerren PLUS now you get more offensive on the floor to start games and 2nd halfs. I dread the start of games and 2nd halfs because you only have 2 legitimate scorers on the floor with Cole and Reggie. Taveras, Matt, and Kendall aren't offensive minded and if seems like we are just hoping to hold on to start games because we are offensively challenged.
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Post by rock70 on Jan 27, 2013 20:43:52 GMT -5
Young is also playing the same position as our best starter, Cole Darling. I wish Donlon would use him at the 3 more. A starting line up of Reggie, Kendall, Jerran, cole, and Taveras makes a lot of sense to me. YES, YES, YES! Now you have 3 legitimate scorers on the floor to start games without losing much if any defense. If you want to keep Matt in the starting lineup because he is and upperclassman that is fine. I'd be fine with Kendall coming off the bench.
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Post by rock70 on Jan 27, 2013 20:47:25 GMT -5
Nobody on this board is there in practice. Let's stop pretending like we know the best players to fit the raider's gameplan. I call horse crap and Taveras Sledge is my proof. Many fans were screaming for coach to stop playing AJ so much and give Sledge a chance earlier this year. It didn't happen until AJ got hurt. Once Sledge was able to play some extended time without the constant fear of getting the quick hook every time he made a simple mistake he has flourished. Everyone is not a great practice player and many great practice players choke under the spotlight in real games. Find a post where someone says Young should start instead of Cole. It isn't out there. Our fans want Young to start at the 3. And if you think he would foul out of every game, I call horse crap again. People said the same thing about Sledge because he has the tendency to pick up fouls in bunches too. Once Sledge started getting extended playing time his fouls went down. Players like Sledge and Young come off the bench and try to make too much happen in a short period of time because they are trying to prove themselves and earn more PT. If they don't have to worry about the quick hook, they play more relaxed and don't foul as much. Coach also gives Young the hardest defensive assignments when he is in games and he loves to say that Young can guard the 1-5 positions. You don't praise someones defense like that if you are afraid they would foul out if they started. I don't know which team you have been following but Bramanti does get extended court time. He has played in 20 of 21 games and averages 11 minutes a game. In his time on the court, he has shown that he can be a good defender but does next to nothing on the offensive end of the court. Bobo has not been given a chance in games. Like Sledge, some players need an actual chance on the court to prove them self. Matt is the one of the hardest worker's on the team. ABOVE average defense, average shot. "He is lucky to hit the front iron" is an absolutely ridiculous exaggeration. He is a good passer, and a solid rebounder for a guard. Once again, I don't know what team you have been watching but it isn't Wright State. Vest is shooting 42% from the field, but he is only shooting 26% from 3 and only 52% from the FT line. His overall stats are: 5.5 points and 3.7 rebounds while playing 25 minutes a game. Not the stats you want from your 3. As I mentioned above, most fans would prefer to see Young start instead of Vest. He only plays 15 minutes a game and puts up better numbers than Vest can in 25 minutes a game. He averages 6.7 points and 3.7 rebounds in those 15 minutes and shoots 53% from the field, 41% from 3, and 67% from the FT line. He is also a much better defender than Vest. Coach always has Kendall, Young, and Bramanti defend our opponent's best players. +1
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