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Post by wsutommygun on Mar 24, 2014 23:16:22 GMT -5
Uptempo, now that is one funny post. You are indeed one true fan, thanks for your continued support ( it has been a nice 20 years and, I think every team is a good team, too ). As for average, I don't think the majority of D-1 teams played for their conference championship in back-to-back years and I don't think the majority of D-1 teams play in the postseason every year let alone back-to-back. Some day I'd like to say we went to post season for 10 years in a row ( so, let's keep it going ).
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Post by hhgreen on Mar 25, 2014 5:58:09 GMT -5
If we remain only 9 teams in the league with the same members I would expect to be in the championship game every year no less. We are the class of the Horizon League on avg now.
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Post by Raider Alumni on Mar 25, 2014 7:35:01 GMT -5
I go to the basketball games to watch the Raiders play well against good teams. If wsutommygun wants to hang out with his friends he should go to Cracker Barrel or Marions Pizza. I am a TRUE fan because I want to watch my team compete for a NCAA Bid, if I wanted to chat over a cup of chamomile tea I would go to a quilting bee or hoedown down near Translvania University. The SOS and RPI are what they are because the coach, A.D. and the WSU President haven't set the bar very high. We've been in the here and now for 20 years and the mediocrity WSU has achieved does not make me happy in the here and now. P.S., if we can't consider a game against a non-D1 school to be an automatic win, then we should just give up basketball. WSU has too many fans that accept average. Instead of insulting us, I would prefer that you just thank us. Without us, the season ticket holders that support the program in good years and bad, vs. good competition and bad competition, we would still be playing at Stebbins HS. Our donations and season ticket purchases allow Raider basketball to exist. So called "real fans" like you hold the program back because you don't support the program. If there were more fans like Tommy and myself we would have more revenue to spend on a better schedule, better recruiting, better coaches, etc, etc. If you were a real fan you would put your money where your mouth is.
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Post by wsutommygun on Mar 25, 2014 9:03:28 GMT -5
If you are ( a guy ) in high school dating someone ( let's say a girl ) that is the top 3, 5, or 10 for homecoming queen but, she doesn't win, does that mean you have to quit dating her because she isn't number one? In a recent thread, gmoore ( sorry, it might have been on the other board ) said something like he wanted to take his ball and go home to sulk because the Raiders had failed to live up to expectations ( like everyone in his personal and professional life must do, I guess ), the problem was that the Raiders were still playing. College Insider does the mid-major poll and the tourney is for mid-majors ( the chance of playing one of the big boys makes those other 3 a little more appealing but, I was happy to play ECU and OU and I wanted to win...if it led to a home game, I would have bought the tickets and been there to root them on ). We all want the best...curse, slam the door, whatever when the team doesn't take care of business but, don't keep whining 10 days later because we aren't in the big dance ( luckily, the team was able to do well in North Carolina and not pout about something that wasn't in the cards this year )...if all this leads someone to the conclusion that we don't care or we accept something less then I have no control over that type of logic. I'd like to thank the team and staff for another ( dare I say ) nice season.
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Post by wolf41 on Mar 25, 2014 10:17:18 GMT -5
What I want in the hypothetical "now" is for the HL to expand to 12 good teams. I want the HL to do away with D-II and III games. With a 12 team HL those type of teams won't be necessary for building a schedule, as we'll have 22 league games and only need to schedule 7 additional games. Included in those 7 games we should have at least 2 "majors". If we could partner with the MAC, MVC, or the OVC that would be wonderful as well. We should pursue that ASAP before the MAC or MVC partners with others and once again the HL is stuck outside looking in while the Commish is asleep at the wheel.
I stated a long time ago that when the Nutter Center debt was retired that the former $35 student fee should be retained and earmarked for "student activities" and the Nutter Ctr. enhancements. Instead, I suspect that $35 fee went into everything BUT those items. I think WSU needs to increase funding for Athletics in general and Nutter Center enhancements. Failure to earmark such funds made them easy internal targets for other uses, such as faculty pay raises. We know the state is only interested in minimizing money for state higher ed unless there is legislative interest in particular schools. But, for now at least, student fees belong to the institution. So we have to look to those fees as well as ticket sales and other sport related revenue for funding.
But the comments above are correct. WSU and HL fans have been too accepting of mediocre or below average performance year after year. The only exception to that has been Butler basketball. In general the HL has been a league of "one game and we're out" of the NCAA tournaments.
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Post by wsutommygun on Mar 25, 2014 10:41:01 GMT -5
Wolf41, is there any 12 team leagues playing a 22 game regular season conference schedule? I don't know, I was thinking consensus would make it two divisions with 6 teams. What is the real alternative to being "accepting"? You can be a fan or find a team that meets your needs a little better. I suspect some fans have no attachment to WSU, they may show up for basketball games and nothing else. Maybe they only care about wins and losses ( and there is nothing wrong with that ). Some might not care if a kid ever steps in a classroom. Some may think revenue is important so, use it wisely. Maybe, cheat if necessary because it is all about wins and losses ( try not to get caught though ). I think this year is an example of how tough it is across the country. No team will be confused with being an all-time great. Not even sure seeding was that easy to figure. For sure we may disagree with what WSU and HL fans show by continuing to be back year after year. Some may think by definition mid-major means you better enjoy good things when they do come along. I like the coach, AD, and university president, I have no doubt they love representing the school and want the best.
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Post by wolf41 on Mar 25, 2014 12:11:10 GMT -5
tommygun, You may right about the 12 team leagues. My comment was consistent with an earlier comment about increasing to twelve teams would reduce the need for out of conference scheduling. To me the beauty of a 12-team conference is that there is less devotion of the coaches time spent on scheduling. That feature, plus the fact that the league is more secure in fielding enough teams for automatic NCAA bids, are two major advantages of a larger league. A 12-team league gives you 22 games in a round robin style of play at home and on the road versus every team. I like that more than the 16 conference games that some, if not all, 12-team leagues play. For one reason, it strikes me as being a fairer system than just playing the 6 teams in the other division one time,3 at home and 3 on the road. That lends itself to a school saying "we had to play team A at their place while you got to play them at home."
As for me,liking or disliking the coach, AD, or President means nothing to me in regards to how the HL and WSU are doing. I thought Coach Schilling was one of the best people I've ever met, but he wasn't really developing the program. So the questions for me are, is the HL getting stronger or weaker relative to the other leagues and teams? When the HL teams get into the NCAA tournaments, how successful are they? Right now, IMO, we are failing as a competitive team/league. In my view we, as a team and league, will be competitive when we can compete against stronger schedules and get more then one team into NCAA tournaments for one game.
The A-10 got 6 teams into the NCAA versus our one. It is like that virtually every year. Personally, I don't like that. I bet every coach in the HL hates that as well. But to change it the HL teams have to win games against competitive teams, not D-II or D-III teams. If any coach is content with that, they should get out of coaching.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Mar 25, 2014 13:44:50 GMT -5
3 Mid-major teams (Stephen F. Austin, NDSU, and Harvard)
Harvard lost one conference game all season, en route to winning the league title (no league tournament). They also went out there and played the following teams: -Green Bay (and won) -UConn (lost by 5) -BC (won by double digits) -TCU (won by double digits) By earning the auto-bid, and a resume with 3 quality non-conference wins, they earned a 12 seed, and shocked Mick Cronin and Cincinnati.
NDSU went 12-2 in conference, and had non-conference road wins against Notre Dame and Western Michigan, and entered the big dance winning 10 straight. They drew Lon Kruger and Oklahoma in the round of 64, and won.
Stephen F. Austin went undefeated in conference play, and coasted to the Southland conference championship, and with only 2 losses on the season, drew a 12 seed, and then stunned Shaka Smart and VCU.
The killer is that these teams were a combined 20 point dogs in their opening round games, and won by a combined 11. And in seeing all 3 of these teams play earlier in the season, I picked all 3 of these upsets, while the oddsmakers thought the big boys would roll right over top of them. NDSU and SF Austin both ran away with the regular season titles in their league, and didn't falter in their tournaments. Because of their willingness to play OCC teams, and show well, then playing well through their in conference season, they were rewarded with winnable games. And all 3 of them were able to pull of rather significant upsets. (I'll admit, I picked all 3 upsets)...
My point in all of this, is that this is where WSU needs to be moving. You can see what happens to a team who either didn't prepare by playing decent opponents or who weren't supposed to win their tournaments end up. Milwaukee got creamed by Villanova, Wisconsin pounded American University, NC Central couldn't hang with Iowa State, same with Delaware.
American finished 2nd in the Patriot- but lacked any decent OOC wins We all know Milwaukee's story, got a 15 seed with no OOC wins of significance, and a bad conference showing NC Central actually beat Maryland and NC State, but proved nothing coasting through a conference with the 31st rated RPI out of 33
We have a middle of the pack RPI (15th) which is one of the highest among mid major conferences...if we could have won a few of those OOC games, specifically Georgetown/Depaul, and maybe take out those d3 games, and do a bit better in conference, that could have been us. That needs to be us.
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Post by wsutommygun on Mar 25, 2014 14:28:12 GMT -5
wsuraider09, I could be wrong but, I'll bet SF Austin's best win was against VCU and would be hard pressed to say they had a 2nd best win ( unless it was for the automatic bid that kept them from a trip to the NIT ). I'm not sure your 3 examples would have been dancing without those automatic bids. As it was, for better or worse, we not only played in the conference championship game but, were lucky enough to host. Might be that more wins would have gotten us a better seed but, I was confident no matter what the seed. So, as much as everyone likes to complain about SOS, SF Austin showed the trick to a better RPI is winning ( I think it was Willie and Big D that pointed that out ). Anyway, you can see problems with your logic since ( if you want to say we did everything wrong ) we still ended up being in the championship game. If we had got to the dance, who knows what would have happened ( maybe it could have been us...maybe it could have been us even without beating Georgetown and DePaul ).
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Post by hhgreen on Mar 25, 2014 14:50:51 GMT -5
If we win the championship game our road through the NCAA would have been better than a 15 seed after beating Georgetown and DePaul as well as beating Green Bay.
We should be playing the conference tourney every year at the Nutt House. The competition might be strong for Ill -Chicago or Oakland but not for the Raiders. We had superior athletes and a better team than everyone except possibly Green Bay. If Green Bay won the tourney they would have been a 12 seed more than likely.
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Post by wsutommygun on Mar 25, 2014 15:13:41 GMT -5
If Green Bay would have been a 12 seed then you'd have to wonder if they were paying any attention to the health of Brown and Sykes. If they were paying attention then it is quite possible they could have started in Dayton. A couple of the one seeds could have been beaten on day 1, it will happen some day. I agree that we should play the conference tourney every year at the Nutter Center, could we please make it go to the highest bidder. We lost 5 seniors, you know the ones that started towards the end of the season. I'm thinking Kendall might have to hang it up ( who would have thought basketball and not football would be such a problem with concussions ). I'm a one day at a time person but, every year hosting the tourney or you'll be disappointed or what?
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Post by mrose on Mar 25, 2014 17:41:53 GMT -5
Tommygun: Let's be real here. Propping up BD by stating WSU has played in back-to-back conference championship games doesn't carry much weight if you look a bit deeper.
18 Conferences this year had schools playing in back-to-back championship games--That's over half the conferences(Pac 12--UCLA; SEC--Florida; MVC--Wichita State; America East--Albany; NEC--Mt. Saint Mary's; A-10--VCU; Atlantic Sun--Mercer, FGCU; Big Sky--Weber State; MAAC--Iona, Manhattan; Mtn. West--New Mexico; MEAC--Morgan State; OVC--Belmont; Southland--Stephen F. Austin; SWAC--Prairie View A&M; Summit--North Dakota State; WCC--Gonzaga; WAC--New Mexico State; Horizon--Wright State).
Here's the rub and disconcerting part and a strong reason BD should be on the hot seat. Of the 18 conferences that had repeat teams in championship games ONLY 3 conferences did NOT send the repeat team to the NCAA or NIT. Only 3. And it's very embarrassing company. 1) SWAC--Prairie View A&M. 2) MEAC--Morgan State. 3) Horizon--Wright State.
Now...let me hear the excuses of how BD is doing such a wonderful job that when we compare year-end results we have to go down to the likes of Morgan State and PVA&M for comparison...
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Post by wsutommygun on Mar 25, 2014 18:31:38 GMT -5
mrose, Billy Donlon hasn't been the first coach at WSU, how many of the others got us to back-to-back conference championship games? How many of the others have gotten postseason wins after the league tourney? You can find all kinds of ways to look deeper. If reports of an extension are true, not sure how hot the seat really is but, we are in the HL...so, if I didn't keep this just to Wright State then the next direction would be comparisons to other league members and not to schools in other conferences. Don't know what to tell you about being a fan or not but, thought this message board was for my team. Not sure what this has to do with boycotting non D-1 teams, either ( but, the formula is working...just kidding, I'd rather not schedule them but, I wouldn't boycott ).
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Post by mrose on Mar 25, 2014 18:56:18 GMT -5
Okay--Comparison to other league schools and post season. 6 of the current 9 HL schools during BD's head coaching tenure have taken their teams to either the NCAA or NIT. The three (bottom third) that haven't: Youngstown State (which doesn't give a crap about basketball), UIC, and Wright State.
As a fan, I'm not satisfied with those results. Why are you?
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Post by wsutommygun on Mar 25, 2014 20:35:35 GMT -5
mrose, you obviously have a problem with the program or the coach. I can't control whether or not you wish to be a fan. How long are you going to whine because we didn't take advantage of winning the HL championship by hosting? We've played 2 games since then. If you aren't satisfied and consider yourself a fan, please don't beat yourself up for the next 8 months. We'll try again next season. The results are back-to-back 20+ win seasons, back-to-back first round byes as a 3 seed, back-to-back appearances in the league championship games, back-to-back postseason invites, back-to-back seasons with wins in the postseason. If making the NCAA or NIT is the only thing that will satisfy you, we tried the approach for the first 25 years in D1. There are 4 postseason tournaments, why are we too good for them when so many others are willing to participate. I can't imagine sitting at home if we are good enough to be invited. I won't boycott any game on the schedule.
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