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Post by thatbaldraiderfan on Feb 20, 2013 14:36:44 GMT -5
4. Evansville is a private school and Detroit, Loyola, and Valpo are really pushing for at least 2 of the 3 schools the HL is adding be private to help balance out the private/public aspect of the conference. Is it just a pride thing with private schools as far as the conference goes? Why would schools care how many in the league are private or public?
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Post by mrose on Feb 20, 2013 15:52:10 GMT -5
Perhaps all 3 new members will be private.
If, and it's a big "if," but if Creighton goes with the C7+ and Evansville joins the Horizon that leaves the MVC with 8 members. Illinois State is on record they want to have a FBS football program and it's widely believed Northern Iowa wants the same. The logical place for those two schools is the MAC, though C-USA and the Sun Belt may make a play. Would the loss of CU and UE from the MVC precipitate ISU and UNI going balls in FBS football and joining the MAC?
If so, that leaves Bradley and Drake as the only private schools left in a 6 member MVC. Geographically Bradley makes sense. Drake not so much, but Des Moines is closer to Valpo the Wisconsin and Illinois schools than Nashville.
I'm speculating, but wouldn't UDM rather travel all the way to Des Moines for non-revenue sports than go up the road 30 minutes? I'm not sure how many votes it takes (2/3?), but UDM could probably get 5 other schools (WI, IL, Valpo--private) to go along and vote for Bradley & Drake over Oakland and Belmont.
If all that plays out then the Horizon is left with another question. The word is the league only wants to add 3 schools, but what about the other WSU? Wichita State? No football, excellent basketball and baseball and no place to go. If the Shockers begged to be in the league would the Horizon say no, 12 is our limit? Then there would be 3 other institutions that would have to be looked at--Indiana State, Southern Illinois, and Missouri State. Schools with no place to go, but with FCS football. Possibly MSU upgrades football and goes the way of C-USA or Sunbelt, but no way Indiana State goes that route and SIU is in too much red ink to upgrade football for the time being.
All this is making my head spin.
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Post by Raider Grad on Feb 25, 2013 13:56:54 GMT -5
I was just re-watching the Milwaukee game on my DVR and they had an interview with David Hopkins. He said the Horizon League will be making a big announcement on additional numbers to the conference in the Spring. It sounded like it was already a done deal. I hope we hear something on expansion during our conference tournament. It would be great going into this NCAA tournament being able to root on a few future members of the conference in the post season.
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Post by Sixth Man on Feb 25, 2013 20:32:46 GMT -5
I hope we hear something on expansion during our conference tournament. It would be great going into this NCAA tournament being able to root on a few future members of the conference in the post season. +1
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Post by mrose on Feb 25, 2013 20:33:20 GMT -5
There’s no fear, but disappointment might be around the corner.
There are a lot of dominos to fall once schools start jumping conferences. Let’s take a look at a couple of teams in play:
Creighton (MVC): One of the rumored to possibly bolt for the C7 +. CU’s president is on Marquette’s board and as rumor has it MU is fighting hard to have Creighton as one of the new teams. Who would the MVC backfill with? Both NDSU and SDSU have been mentioned as possible candidates. If so that leaves the MVC with 11 teams and would more than likely add a 12th team assuming Evansville remains. The next logical target would be a Horizon school (UIC, Mil., Valpo, UDM) or possible Murray State (a rumored HL target, but FCS school that would fit in nicely with MVC football). Possible downside: HL loses 1 school and doesn’t get either Murray State or UE.
Tulsa wouldn’t go as they play FBS football while the MVC plays FCS football. Tulsa is also rumored to be the possible 12th team (along with UMass) in the Big East lite conference. Possibly the MVC adds Oral Roberts from Tulsa, but not Tulsa.
St. Louis: Depending on the rumor de jour they are either in or out of the new conference. There seems to be some animosity between them and the MVC, they think of themselves as an east coast school, recruit heavily on the east coast (for general student population), and have relatively large alumni populations in east coast cities. If the C 7+ were to only add 3 new teams (UD, X, BU…According to the latest from Seth Davis) St. Louis would be out farther on an island than they are now. SLU would still be in a good conference with VCU, GWU, Richmond, St. Joe’s etc., but would need at least another Midwest school to keep them happy, plus the A-10 would need to backfill some of the 5 schools leaving after this year. More than likely SLU would want a private institution if it had its druthers. Adding one more would give the conference 12 teams. Valpo has been mentioned for that. I could also see UDM lobbying for that spot too. If Valpo bolts its possible any itch Evansville had for the HL would go away as those schools are similar in mission and the effect of two rivals in the same conference would be lost. Additionally, even an A-10 sans Butler, UD, X, Temple, Charlotte, may still have a better TV deal with CBSsports and NBCsports than what the HL can cobble together.
I didn’t mention current HL members leaving for the CAA, but potential new members. Robert Morris works geographically just as well for the CAA as it does the Horizon. I was also thinking Belmont. Not sure it makes sense for them, but Sagarin (one of the many quantitative models used) has the CAA 16/17 while the OVC is 21 currently. Additionally, CAA football has historically been rated higher than NEC football (where RMU currently resides)
Here’s where the disappointment comes into play if the HL doesn’t already have 3 more teams signed, sealed, delivered, but just not announced.
Lose two current schools to MVC and A-10 leaving the league with 7 members of which only 3 have baseball (If UIC and Valpo leave). If all 3 of the new members don’t have baseball then there’s no AQ for the HL. The last I checked RMU doesn’t have baseball and we just spent how much for new turf?
Everybody knows programs ebb and flow, but in my opinion I don’t think it would be a good trade, in the long-term, to potentially lose the likes of UIC, Valpo, UDM and replace them with the likes of Oakland, Robert Morris, and Morehead State
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Post by Raider3G on Feb 25, 2013 20:47:36 GMT -5
I think Raider Up has good points. The only "threat" to the current structure of the HL is if the MVC expands and swallows up Valpo. But frankly I don't see the rest of the HL schools really being attractive to other members of the MVC (though I'd like to think that the MVC would be interested in WSU considering our winning tradition, only one losing season since 2006-7, and facilities). Also, I don't see the Catholic 7 or the A-10 being interested in UDM, or any of our schools going to the Summit.
But from what I understand from another poster in this threat, the MVC is actually threatened by the desire by some members to move to the FBS...if that is the case, could we see some of those schools go to Conference USA for both football and basketball?
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Post by Retired Coach on Feb 25, 2013 20:55:24 GMT -5
Creighton (MVC): One of the rumored to possibly bolt for the C7 +. CU’s president is on Marquette’s board and as rumor has it MU is fighting hard to have Creighton as one of the new teams. Who would the MVC backfill with? Both NDSU and SDSU have been mentioned as possible candidates. If so that leaves the MVC with 11 teams and would more than likely add a 12th team assuming Evansville remains. The next logical target would be a Horizon school (UIC, Mil., Valpo, UDM) or possible Murray State (a rumored HL target, but FCS school that would fit in nicely with MVC football). Possible downside: HL loses 1 school and doesn’t get either Murray State or UE. None of the HL schools you have mentioned make sense for the MVC. UIC has been a mess of a program for years. They are having a decent season this year based on a strong senior class. I do not see them maintaining that next year. Regardless, they have a less than impressive resume for the MVC to consider. No conference would touch Milwaukee with a 10 foot pole. They are on their 5th or 6th AD in the last 10 years and have been hemorrhaging money for the last 5 years. The shit is getting ready to hit the fan at UDM with their scandal involving their AD and one of their basketball coaches. Once Ray Jr graduates, they will also be a middle of the pack team again. Valpo is the most successful of the teams you have mentioned but they are built on a pile of sand. Their entire basketball success is based on their coach. He was up for BCS jobs last year. If they win the HL this year and go Dancing, he will get offers this year. If he leaves Valpo is going to have a serious problem duplicating their success without him. They have crappy facilities and they do not pay their coach much. I don't see the MVC having much interest in any of those programs. I don't see them going after Murray State either. They do not make any sense geographically. I think if Creighton AND Evansville left this year, they would be happy to add North and South Dakota and consider it an good trade up. Everybody knows programs ebb and flow, but in my opinion I don’t think it would be a good trade, in the long-term, to potentially lose the likes of UIC, Valpo, UDM and replace them with the likes of Oakland, Robert Morris, and Morehead State If you go to any of our games, the schools that the in touch alumni have been talking about are Belmont, Evansville, and Oakland. I do not know if those are the 3 we will be adding to the HL, but they are also the 3 that are talked about the most on other HL message boards. We should find something out soon enough.
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Post by Big D on Mar 3, 2013 11:43:44 GMT -5
This thread got way off topic. This is a thread about HL expansion and this is a Wright State message board. If you want to discuss UD basketball, their arena or their conference affiliation, I suggest you visit UDpride.
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Post by Bomber on Mar 6, 2013 18:37:31 GMT -5
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Post by Raider Grad on Mar 7, 2013 19:06:18 GMT -5
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Post by Raider Grad on Mar 7, 2013 19:07:34 GMT -5
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Post by Ukraine Train on Mar 8, 2013 7:28:57 GMT -5
Horizon League Commissioner LeCrone talks about conference realignments: "We can survive as a nine-member league. But we not only want to maintain our brand, we want to improve on it. We’ve spent a lot of time talking about our internal growth. We want to improve in scheduling, officiating, basketball operations, competitiveness and student development issues.
``When you consider where we want to be basketball-wise, it’s hard not to consider expansion in this environment,’’ he added. ``We want to remain a top brand. I think our league is pretty well positioned [to remain intact.]’’
All conferences have ``wish lists’’ of potential future members—and of potential member defectors.
``I think we’re pretty well-positioned to take advantage of opportunities [to expand] than to be too worried about departures,’’ he said. ``The wild-card is you don’t know who or when. It would be naïve to think schools would not be presented with other options,’’ he added.
`I think we’ll see some clarity in the next 30 to 45 days.’’www.suntimes.com/sports/colleges/18674836-419/new-big-east-likely-to-trigger-more-conference-defections.html
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Post by gerb on Mar 8, 2013 8:12:40 GMT -5
"We can survive as a nine-member league.
`I think we�ll see some clarity in the next 30 to 45 days.�� Oh boy...
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Post by Indy Raider on Mar 8, 2013 19:05:51 GMT -5
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Post by Ukraine Train on Mar 8, 2013 20:09:33 GMT -5
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