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Post by Retired Coach on Mar 31, 2022 6:37:43 GMT -5
From the article: Nagy, who has three available scholarships, has taken a handful of transfers over his six years, and three have become HL honorees: Cole Gentry, Bill Wampler and Tim Finke. “Every situation is not the same,” he said. “When you look at Cole and Bill and Tim, they’re all kids we had relationships with previously. That makes it easier for us when you know them and know their heart. “But we certainly aren’t going to run around and do the transfer thing every year to restack the team.”This is my biggest concern about Coach Nagy moving forward. He is like an old guy that doesn't want to give up his flip phone when everyone else has moved onto a smart phone. The transfer portal problem isn't going to go away. If anything, it is probably only going to get worse for mid-majors. Nagy wants to have a team full of 4 and 5 year players that he brings straight in from high school where he can develop them or his preference would be to red-shirt and develop them. You cannot trust guys to stick around like that anymore. You can hope the core of your team is made up of 4 year players you bring in from high school, but nowadays you have to be recruiting JUCO and transfer players to supplement your roster. If Nagy thinks he is only going to be able to look at guys he has previously recruited as transfer possibilities, I really worry about his future as a college coach.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Mar 31, 2022 6:38:27 GMT -5
I wonder if we'll ever figure out what's happened here. Quotes from coaches are talking about expecting all starters back and being surprised about Grant. How did two of our best players transfer out and come as a shock? It's VERY easy to figure out why this was a shock to our staff. Tanner and Grant lied to our coaches. Both repeatedly told our staff they were happy here and planned to come back. That is why our staff was shocked to see both of their names appear in the transfer portal. That's disappointing to hear. From the outside, it appears everyone that this team has a very tight-knit relationship and it seems, again, from the outside, that brotherhood, trust, and candor seems to be important for everyone on this team. Like it was mentioned earlier, these couldn't have been split-second decisions, so that fact that our two standout players were not forthright with our staff about their plans or at least candid with where their heads were at as the season goes along is really disappointing to me. It seems like a disservice to the team to blindside them like this. For me, it seems to say something about these two players; and I'll just leave it at that. I wish this had unfolded differently. It certainly changes my opinion on how some of this went down.
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Post by nomeara on Mar 31, 2022 6:52:55 GMT -5
As much as we may disagree with their decisions, we can't just forget about all the great things they did for the Raider program. Those 2 were awesome to watch and I'll never forget being at the HL tournament this year. To say that we have have been sheltered from the dark side of the transfer portal until right now is an understatement. Loudon staying his entire career is most likely the last time we will ever see that level of commitment from a player of the year caliber guy. It's a gut punch feeling but it is what it is.
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Post by Big D on Mar 31, 2022 6:58:19 GMT -5
It seems like a disservice to the team to blindside them like this. For me, it seems to say something about these two players; and I'll just leave it at that. I wish this had unfolded differently. It certainly changes my opinion on how some of this went down. Honestly, I not upset they are leaving. With the way the transfer portal is hurting college basketball I was expecting some of it. I'm just disappointed in the way the 2 handled it. If they would have been honest about it, our coaches would have been more prepared and could have already been on the recruiting trail weeks or months earlier. I know this is upsetting for our fans, but this really hurts Wright State and our coaches. This is our coach's livelihood. If they don't maintain a certain level of success here, we all know they will eventually lose their jobs. If Tanner and Grant really cared about these coaches, they could have at least been honest with them so they could have started the process of replacing them. This also really hurts our athletic department. If you haven't noticed, we were just kicking off a campaign for season ticket sales for next year. With this year's NCAA tournament success, we were making a big push to increase season ticket sales for next year and try to get more corporate sponsors. Selling tickets and getting sponsors when you are returning 99% of your scoring and rebounding from an NCAA tournament team is really really easy. Doing that when you just lost 2 all conference players that make up 50% of your scoring and rebounding really really hurts. They probably just cost the athletic department 400-500K in revenue next year.
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Post by raidergrad98 on Mar 31, 2022 7:40:41 GMT -5
Let's not forget they're still young adults and in so many ways, learning as they go.
I think it would also be remiss to state that college coaches are also very famous for telling their players, institutions, fans, and the like, that they are happy where they are and have no plans to go elsewhere. I won't even begin to try and summarize the "surprise" announcements from various coaches in college sports that say one thing and do another.
That being said, I'm certainly not going to say that anyone lied - I don't think it's as easily explained as that four-letter word. We shouldn't judge those, having not walked in their shoes. However, I will say that the examples these student athletes are given, particularly in the upper echelons of college athletics (I'm not speaking of our coaching staff - I see integrity in their methods and truth in their words), leave much to be desired as to character and integrity.
We are largely what we witness and tolerate.
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Post by Big D on Mar 31, 2022 8:39:47 GMT -5
That is complete and utter bs. If a coach says he is happy and not leaving his job and is gone the next week for a new job he is going to be called out for being a liar by the fan base of the school he is leaving. Lying is lying anyway you want to explain it away. The same is true for players. You can like both Tanner and Grant as players. You can wish them well at their next school but the truth is both of them repeatedly lied to our staff and their teammates. They didn’t act honorably and they both lost all respect in my book.
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Post by raidergrad98 on Mar 31, 2022 10:24:01 GMT -5
BS? Just because it's not your opinion or doesn't match your thinking doesn't make it BS. Respectfully, I think you're missing the point. I'm drawing a distinction between the decisions of 18-22 year old kids and what they witness in adults and learn from society and college athletics as a whole. These kids are taught to play the game in all facets. Whether it's flopping at the appropriate play to draw a foul, tossing the ball off the back of a defender on an in-bounds play, posing and talking shi* after a dunk, endorsing a chicken-wing restaurant, or withholding their decisions as to future plans. It's all part of the game anymore.
Adults taught them that. Apply the responsibility where it should be. "We" set those rules and we've taught them to exploit every little aspect of them. We're responsible for making these components part of the game, even when core ideas are compromised and many of these things defy the spirit of basketball (or athletics in general) in its purist form.
I think you're ignoring the challenges of being a kid this day and age and the influence of adults in this climate and industry. Equating the two is shortsighted and fundamentally dated, not to mention idealized thinking compared to reality. It's easy for us to stand on the porch and call out the failures of "these damn kids" as if it's some grand malicious plan of their's. Trust me, I do it on a frequent basis, often impulsively and based in my own vantage point. However, that doesn't mean we understand them or should equate their decisions with adults.
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Post by Big D on Mar 31, 2022 11:16:54 GMT -5
That is the problem with your entire argument. They are both adults. They aren’t kids. They are completely free to leave and I honestly don’t have a problem with that. They can ACT like the grown adult that they are and take responsibility for their decision. They didn’t need to lie about their intentions and they could have had the decency to at least tell the staff. A grown ass man does not quit a job by telling his boss he will be at work the next day then quits that next day by text message. A grown ass man gives his 2 weeks notice.
The other problem with your argument is that you think I care that they are taking advantage of the system by transferring. I have stated it over and over again that I don’t care that they are leaving. 100% of my problem with them is the fact that they lied about it when they didn’t have to.
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Post by raidergrad98 on Mar 31, 2022 12:26:39 GMT -5
That is my argument. lol You don't know this generation and you're applying your standard to it and upset it doesn't mesh. I'm not saying that "doing the right" thing doesn't apply any more, but the methods and applied standard have changed whether you like it or not. Have a real conversation with this generation without simply waiting for your turn to speak and not listening. Again, everything is gaming to some extent, and we made it this way. College basketball is just the example here.
Your argument about quitting a job - I get it, and agree that the mature thing to do is put in your notice and give the employer time and opportunity to deal with your departure; right or wrong, that's dated thinking. These kids (equating age with "adult" is foolhardy) don't think and act the way you and I may. They certainly don't make decisions like older generations and they'll change course on a dime while we're busy trying to launch Facebook on our phones. Shit, they don't even use FB. Good luck finding a kid that'll plot a pros/cons chart and weigh their options. It doesn't matter if you agree with it; it's happening and involves far older folks than 18-22 year olds, and with far more responsibility and clout.
I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I don't much care if you disagree (you know you'd say the same to any one of us). I'm totally ok with that. If I've learned anything from my time on this board over the years, ain't no one convincing you of anything you don't conceive yourself. I must admit, it's one of the reasons why I generally like you -you'll stand your ground and defend your argument.
Now I have some adulting to do. Where'd I put that damn phone..?
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Post by ohiopirate on Mar 31, 2022 12:33:20 GMT -5
Brining in transfers that you don't have a previous relationship is riksy so I see coach's point in some respects. With HS players you have time to build a relationship and figure out what kind of kid you're getting and if he fits the culture you are trying to establish in the locker room. You have to act a lot quicker when players hit the transfer portal and decide if you want to bring them in. I won't name names but its fairly well known we've had a kid or two on our team that didn't buy into the team-first concept and our coaches have let talented players leave the team or walk away because of it.
So maybe we miss out on some talent but save the family environment and culture that Nagy hasn't worked so hard to build by focusing on kids we may have recruited in the past. That said, he needs to also find some new stragegies to evaluate the transfer market and fit instead of soley relying on past relationships.
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Post by dopetoast on Mar 31, 2022 12:36:49 GMT -5
I'm obviously upset that they left and I wish they wouldn't have, but in no way have I lost respect for them.
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Post by Former Mascot on Mar 31, 2022 16:42:31 GMT -5
That is my argument. lol You don't know this generation and you're applying your standard to it and upset it doesn't mesh. I'm not saying that "doing the right" thing doesn't apply any more, but the methods and applied standard have changed whether you like it or not. Have a real conversation with this generation without simply waiting for your turn to speak and not listening. Again, everything is gaming to some extent, and we made it this way. College basketball is just the example here. Your argument about quitting a job - I get it, and agree that the mature thing to do is put in your notice and give the employer time and opportunity to deal with your departure; right or wrong, that's dated thinking. These kids (equating age with "adult" is foolhardy) don't think and act the way you and I may. They certainly don't make decisions like older generations and they'll change course on a dime while we're busy trying to launch Facebook on our phones. Shit, they don't even use FB. Good luck finding a kid that'll plot a pros/cons chart and weigh their options. It doesn't matter if you agree with it; it's happening and involves far older folks than 18-22 year olds, and with far more responsibility and clout. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I don't much care if you disagree (you know you'd say the same to any one of us). I'm totally ok with that. If I've learned anything from my time on this board over the years, ain't no one convincing you of anything you don't conceive yourself. I must admit, it's one of the reasons why I generally like you -you'll stand your ground and defend your argument. Now I have some adulting to do. Where'd I put that damn phone..? I’m 25, so I am the generation you are talking about and your argument is as Big D said a bunch of BS. Lying is lying, no matter what generation you are from. If you have been dating a girl for 3-4 years and make plans to go on a vacation with them next month and then you dump them by text the next day, you are a lying douche. If you have worked for a company for 3-4 years, you don’t just stop showing up to work one day without telling your boss you quit. Right is right no matter what age you are. Lying is lying no matter what age you are. Making excuses for bad behavior is just that= making excuses. Tanner and Grant handled the situation wrong. Lou handled a very similar situation the right way last year. He had the chance to come back for an extra year due to Covid. When the staff asked him what his plans were, he didn’t lie to them. He was upfront and honest and said he didn’t know what he wanted to do for sure and wanted to weigh his options. Our staff respected that and gave him a few months to make that decision. They hoped he would come back but went about planning for this season without him. Grant and Tanner could have done the same thing. When asked throughout the season if they were happy and coming back next year, they could have told the staff that they wanted to wait until after the season to weigh their options. It would have been honest and not committed them to staying or going but it would have allowed out coaches to come up with a plan B in case they decided to leave. They did the wrong thing and just lied to them. Like Big D, I don’t find that acceptable and I also lost a lot of respect for each of them.
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Post by raidergrad98 on Mar 31, 2022 18:09:09 GMT -5
That is my argument. lol You don't know this generation and you're applying your standard to it and upset it doesn't mesh. I'm not saying that "doing the right" thing doesn't apply any more, but the methods and applied standard have changed whether you like it or not. Have a real conversation with this generation without simply waiting for your turn to speak and not listening. Again, everything is gaming to some extent, and we made it this way. College basketball is just the example here. Your argument about quitting a job - I get it, and agree that the mature thing to do is put in your notice and give the employer time and opportunity to deal with your departure; right or wrong, that's dated thinking. These kids (equating age with "adult" is foolhardy) don't think and act the way you and I may. They certainly don't make decisions like older generations and they'll change course on a dime while we're busy trying to launch Facebook on our phones. Shit, they don't even use FB. Good luck finding a kid that'll plot a pros/cons chart and weigh their options. It doesn't matter if you agree with it; it's happening and involves far older folks than 18-22 year olds, and with far more responsibility and clout. I'm not trying to convince you of anything and I don't much care if you disagree (you know you'd say the same to any one of us). I'm totally ok with that. If I've learned anything from my time on this board over the years, ain't no one convincing you of anything you don't conceive yourself. I must admit, it's one of the reasons why I generally like you -you'll stand your ground and defend your argument. Now I have some adulting to do. Where'd I put that damn phone..? I’m 25, so I am the generation you are talking about and your argument is as Big D said a bunch of BS. Lying is lying, no matter what generation you are from. If you have been dating a girl for 3-4 years and make plans to go on a vacation with them next month and then you dump them by text the next day, you are a lying douche. If you have worked for a company for 3-4 years, you don’t just stop showing up to work one day without telling your boss you quit. Right is right no matter what age you are. Lying is lying no matter what age you are. Making excuses for bad behavior is just that= making excuses. Tanner and Grant handled the situation wrong. Lou handled a very similar situation the right way last year. He had the chance to come back for an extra year due to Covid. When the staff asked him what his plans were, he didn’t lie to them. He was upfront and honest and said he didn’t know what he wanted to do for sure and wanted to weigh his options. Our staff respected that and gave him a few months to make that decision. They hoped he would come back but went about planning for this season without him. Grant and Tanner could have done the same thing. When asked throughout the season if they were happy and coming back next year, they could have told the staff that they wanted to wait until after the season to weigh their options. It would have been honest and not committed them to staying or going but it would have allowed out coaches to come up with a plan B in case they decided to leave. They did the wrong thing and just lied to them. Like Big D, I don’t find that acceptable and I also lost a lot of respect for each of them. I think you've drastically reduced my series of posts to an argument over right/wrong, and cherry-picked a few items to hastily comment on. With all due respect, you might want to re-read them. My comments are more about changes in societal expectations, communications, generational norms, and subsequent decision rationale.
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Post by Big D on Mar 31, 2022 18:32:27 GMT -5
I’m 25, so I am the generation you are talking about and your argument is as Big D said a bunch of BS. Lying is lying, no matter what generation you are from. If you have been dating a girl for 3-4 years and make plans to go on a vacation with them next month and then you dump them by text the next day, you are a lying douche. If you have worked for a company for 3-4 years, you don’t just stop showing up to work one day without telling your boss you quit. Right is right no matter what age you are. Lying is lying no matter what age you are. Making excuses for bad behavior is just that= making excuses. Tanner and Grant handled the situation wrong. Lou handled a very similar situation the right way last year. He had the chance to come back for an extra year due to Covid. When the staff asked him what his plans were, he didn’t lie to them. He was upfront and honest and said he didn’t know what he wanted to do for sure and wanted to weigh his options. Our staff respected that and gave him a few months to make that decision. They hoped he would come back but went about planning for this season without him. Grant and Tanner could have done the same thing. When asked throughout the season if they were happy and coming back next year, they could have told the staff that they wanted to wait until after the season to weigh their options. It would have been honest and not committed them to staying or going but it would have allowed out coaches to come up with a plan B in case they decided to leave. They did the wrong thing and just lied to them. Like Big D, I don’t find that acceptable and I also lost a lot of respect for each of them. I think you've drastically reduced my series of posts to an argument over right/wrong, and cherry-picked a few items to hastily comment on. With all due respect, you might want to re-read them. My comments are more about changes in societal expectations, communications, generational norms, and subsequent decision rationale. No, I think he has it just right. Lying is lying no matter what age you are. You can throw out bs terms like societal expectations and generational norms but lying is lying any god damn way you want to try to justify it.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Mar 31, 2022 18:53:03 GMT -5
In other news, we offered Mak Manciel today
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