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Post by OG Raiderfan on Oct 19, 2009 10:15:11 GMT -5
Rivals HL Preview: Two Horizon teams reached the NCAA tournament last season, and both proved they belonged - Cleveland State by thumping No. 4 seed Wake Forest, Butler by fighting to the end of a 75-71 first-round loss to LSU. This season, Butler might be the league's only NCAA rep, but the Bulldogs should give the Horizon another hefty dose of positive attention. Brad Stevens' team appears set for a special season. Everyone else is fighting for second place, with Wisconsin-Milwaukee holding the edge on paper. Cleveland State loses its senior stars but should remain tough, while Wright State has the defense to stay in every game. Detroit is looking to make a move up in the standings, and Indiana transfer Eli Holman should be able to help the Titans climb. AT A GLANCE Regular-season winner last season: Butler Tournament winner last season: Cleveland State (lost in second round of NCAA tournament to Arizona as a No. 13 seed) 2010 conference tournament: March 2, 5, 6, 9. First round on campus sites, quarterfinals and semifinals at site of No. 1 seed, final at site of best remaining seed. Rankings:1. Butler 2. Wisconsin-Milwaukee 3. Wright State 4. Cleveland State 5. Wisconsin-Green Bay 6. Illinois-Chicago 7. Youngstown State 8. Detroit 9. Loyola-Chicago 10. Valparaiso PRESEASON PICKS First team F Gordon Hayward, 6-8, Soph., Butler F Matt Howard, 6-8, Jr., Butler G Tone Boyle, 6-2, Sr., Wisconsin-Milwaukee G Todd Brown, 6-5, Sr., Wright State G Shelvin Mack, 6-3, Soph., Butler Second team F James Eayrs, 6-7, Soph., Wisconsin-Milwaukee F Xavier Keeling, 6-7, Jr., Detroit G Norris Cole, 6-1, Jr., Cleveland State G Rahmon Fletcher, 5-10, Jr., Wisconsin-Green Bay G DeAndre Mays, 6-2, Jr., Youngstown State PLAYER OF THE YEAR F Matt Howard, 6-8, Jr., Butler NEWCOMER OF THE YEAR F Kevin Anderson, 6-10, Jr., Cleveland State Best frontcourt: Butler Best backcourt: Wright State Coach on the rise: Brad Brownell, Wright State Coach on the hot seat: Jim Whitesell, Loyola Last NCAA tournament win: 2009, Cleveland State won a first-round game as a No. 13 seed collegebasketball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1002987
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Post by riceownz2 on Oct 19, 2009 14:07:01 GMT -5
We are really picked to finish 3rd? And no VD on first or second team? This is rivals. Shouldn't they have a little more incite on the HL?
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Post by coogles on Oct 19, 2009 16:54:05 GMT -5
They're clueless. The only serviceable player UIC has coming back is Robo Kreps. Spencer Stewart is decent if Collins lets him play, but I have yet to see any details of his suspension. The rest of their major pieces are almost all unknowns except for Jeremy Buttell, but he was never a showstopper, plus he's ridiculously inefficient on offense.
I could see Rivals having some reservations about VD considering he hasn't played in a year, but with the title of "best backcourt", and him being the best member of that backcourt, I'd expect to see him on at least the second team.
Milwaukee looks good on paper with how little they lost. I can see why someone not too familiar with the league could put them second, but that's not where I would rank them.
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Post by motowntitan on Oct 20, 2009 7:46:49 GMT -5
The HL is and always has been a guard dominated conference. Detroit isn't deep enough at guard to finish that high in the HL. Tell that to Hayward & Howard!
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Post by riceownz2 on Oct 20, 2009 8:49:29 GMT -5
The HL is and always has been a guard dominated conference. Detroit isn't deep enough at guard to finish that high in the HL. Tell that to Hayward & Howard! That is why Butler is good. They are a complete team. For most mid-majors its hard to get a complete team.
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Post by Raider Alumni on Oct 20, 2009 17:37:54 GMT -5
The HL is and always has been a guard dominated conference. Detroit isn't deep enough at guard to finish that high in the HL. Tell that to Hayward & Howard! I guess you are one of the individuals that don't seem to remember that Butler didn't win the HL tournament last year. CSU did with their 3 guard line up. ;D
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Post by coogles on Oct 20, 2009 20:27:50 GMT -5
1st: Hayward is a guard.
2nd: The only reason the HL is guard-oriented is because there are so few quality big men compared to how many talented guards are out there. Such is the nature of there being more short guys than tall ones. Anyway...talent is talent. The most athletic, most skilled, best-coached players win games; it doesn't matter if they are guards or forwards.
Bring Hasheem Thabeet or Dejuan Blair into the HL and they'd dominate and win games just like a good guard can, but they'd probably do it with more consistency.
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Post by Raider Alumni on Oct 20, 2009 21:23:51 GMT -5
1st: Hayward is a guard. 2nd: The only reason the HL is guard-oriented is because there are so few quality big men compared to how many talented guards are out there. Such is the nature of there being more short guys than tall ones. Anyway...talent is talent. The most athletic, most skilled, best-coached players win games; it doesn't matter if they are guards or forwards. Bring Hasheem Thabeet or Dejuan Blair into the HL and they'd dominate and win games just like a good guard can, but they'd probably do it with more consistency. 1. You can call Hayward whatever you want but everyone knows he is a small forward. 2. You obviously haven't been following the HL for very long. The HL has it's fair share of big men that have gone onto making a living playing pro ball. Very few of them played for championship teams. Even last year with Howard in the post, you didn't win the HL.
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Post by coogles on Oct 20, 2009 22:06:10 GMT -5
Hayward was a 5-11 point guard when he started high school; adding 10 inches doesn't suddenly give him post moves or make him capable of guarding a heavier power forward. He's a wing player, period.
When did I mention Matt Howard? Regardless, he's not Hasheem Thabeet or Dejuan Blair.
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Post by Raider Alumni on Oct 21, 2009 6:16:49 GMT -5
Hayward was a 5-11 point guard when he started high school; adding 10 inches doesn't suddenly give him post moves or make him capable of guarding a heavier power forward. He's a wing player, period. Learn to read. I said everyone knows he is a SMALL FORWARD. He grew 10 inches during his high school career into a fSMALL FORWARD. He isn't a guard and he has a much better chance trying to defend heavier forwards than staying with quick guards due to his lack of foot speed.
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Post by motowntitan on Oct 21, 2009 13:52:24 GMT -5
Hayward was a 5-11 point guard when he started high school; adding 10 inches doesn't suddenly give him post moves or make him capable of guarding a heavier power forward. He's a wing player, period. So I guess Ryvon Coville was a guard too then? Because he only played one year in high school at 5'11"
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Post by motowntitan on Oct 21, 2009 13:59:29 GMT -5
Tell that to Hayward & Howard! I guess you are one of the individuals that don't seem to remember that Butler didn't win the HL tournament last year. CSU did with their 3 guard line up. ;D So what if Butler didn't win one game, they still won the regular season title and were nationally ranked. Also, I did not mean to discount S. Mack, Veasley, or Norad. Just saying that Butlers strength was not part of the guard dominated theory.
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Post by coogles on Oct 21, 2009 17:30:05 GMT -5
Hayward was a 5-11 point guard when he started high school; adding 10 inches doesn't suddenly give him post moves or make him capable of guarding a heavier power forward. He's a wing player, period. Learn to read. I said everyone knows he is a SMALL FORWARD. He grew 10 inches during his high school career into a fSMALL FORWARD. He isn't a guard and he has a much better chance trying to defend heavier forwards than staying with quick guards due to his lack of foot speed. What great maturity it takes to resort to personal insults. Hayward guards wings all the time. He came to Butler weighing 180 pounds...he doesn't guard heavier forwards. Veasley may be 6-3, but he actually played the 4 in Butler's system last year. Hayward's foot speed is fine and, if you had paid attention, you would have even seen him on the point occasionally. He's a perfect defensive matchup for a 6-5 wing because he's entirely capable of keeping up with them, with the additional benefit of extra length.
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Post by Big D on Oct 21, 2009 17:44:35 GMT -5
Learn to read. I said everyone knows he is a SMALL FORWARD. He grew 10 inches during his high school career into a fSMALL FORWARD. He isn't a guard and he has a much better chance trying to defend heavier forwards than staying with quick guards due to his lack of foot speed. What great maturity it takes to resort to personal insults. Hayward guards wings all the time. He came to Butler weighing 180 pounds...he doesn't guard heavier forwards. Veasley may be 6-3, but he actually played the 4 in Butler's system last year. Hayward's foot speed is fine and, if you had paid attention, you would have even seen him on the point occasionally. He's a perfect defensive matchup for a 6-5 wing because he's entirely capable of keeping up with them, with the additional benefit of extra length. 1. He didn't resort to a personal insult. He pointed out that you didn't read his post correctly. He called Hayward a small forward. You made a post comparing him to a power forward. No one said that he was a power forward. He said he was a small forward. 2. A wing is a small forward.
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Post by coogles on Oct 21, 2009 18:25:24 GMT -5
What great maturity it takes to resort to personal insults. Hayward guards wings all the time. He came to Butler weighing 180 pounds...he doesn't guard heavier forwards. Veasley may be 6-3, but he actually played the 4 in Butler's system last year. Hayward's foot speed is fine and, if you had paid attention, you would have even seen him on the point occasionally. He's a perfect defensive matchup for a 6-5 wing because he's entirely capable of keeping up with them, with the additional benefit of extra length. 1. He didn't resort to a personal insult. He pointed out that you didn't read his post correctly. He called Hayward a small forward. You made a post comparing him to a power forward. No one said that he was a power forward. He said he was a small forward. 2. A wing is a small forward. 1. He implied I cannot read; that's an insult. I said he can't guard a heavier power forward because he can't, he gets pushed around too much. He's listed as a G/F because he is tall, not because he has the skills you'd expect a forward to have. 2. A shooting guard is also a wing, and a small forward is not necessarily a wing. Al-Farouq Aminu plays the 3 for Wake Forest, but he's not really a wing. Same thing with Kyle Singler. Todd Brown will play the 3 for WSU, but I don't think there's anyone here who would call him a small forward. He and Hayward have very similar styles, one just happens to be taller than the other. I'm not the only one who thinks this way. www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/12399263
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