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Post by twizman on Dec 28, 2016 18:15:24 GMT -5
9-4 (7-4 v D-I) in non-conference play isn't good? Second-best RPI in the HL isn't good? OK. No it's not good. 7-4 vs D1 by itself isn't good. Being 7-4 vs a very mediocre schedule makes that even less impressive. And in case you haven't figured out from the multiple posts on this topic but the HL sucks. The league has sucked for several years now and this is looking to be one of the worst years for the conference in recent memory. To say we have the second best RPI in the conference is no better than saying we have the second nicest turd in a huge pile of shit. Ha, I love your passion Big D, but that's a bit harsh IMO.
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Post by twizman on Dec 28, 2016 18:18:38 GMT -5
WSU is far from being the type of team we have become used to seeing. We are happy the rebuilding process is going better than expected, but stop trying to cram it down our throats that we are a good team. What type of team have you been used to seeing? It can't be Wright State because 7-4 seems to be comparable to our "good" seasons of recent years. The 06/07 team went 7-6 in non conference with losses to Chicago State, Coastal Carolina and Bowling Green. This team is similar to what I'm used to seeing, which is a good team some nights, and bad team others. Hope they can build and finally take that next step as a program we've all been waiting for. Hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good argument. Apparently JazzFan witnessed a WSU era that no one else knew existed. Unless he's talking about our D-II days. Or the excellent 1992-93 season with Billy Edwards. Other than that and the 2006-07 squad, what is JazzFan talking about when he says this isn't the type of WSU team people are used to seeing? Unless he means this team actually rebounds and pushes the ball up the court. Course, they did that very well during the Underhill era, so that must be what he's talking about. Our D-II days and our one really good D-I season with Ralph. Brownell era, while brief, was definitely very good. But the combined eras of Schilling/Donlon -- which lasted far longer, especially combined -- ugh. Let's quit acting like we have some great tradition. We did when we were in D-II. We do not have a good tradition since joining D-I. We've had some very good seasons, but overall? Let's face it, we don't have much to brag about it.
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Post by Big D on Dec 28, 2016 21:03:21 GMT -5
I guess none of you remember that Wright State was a top 100 program and 20+ game winner every year Brownell was here. We had a legit shot at the NIT many of those years. We were playing in a HL that was ranked between 11-14 in all of those years with multiple HL teams ranked in the top 100 most years. By the end of this season, we might not have a team in the HL that finishes in the top 100.
Anyone that still has delusions that this is a good team just needs to take a few minutes and listen to our own head coach. He will be the first to tell you we have a long way to go before we are a good team.
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Post by gerb on Dec 28, 2016 23:27:39 GMT -5
I guess none of you remember that Wright State was a top 100 program and 20+ game winner every year Brownell was here. We had a legit shot at the NIT many of those years. We were playing in a HL that was ranked between 11-14 in all of those years with multiple HL teams ranked in the top 100 most years. By the end of this season, we might not have a team in the HL that finishes in the top 100. Anyone that still has delusions that this is a good team just needs to take a few minutes and listen to our own head coach. He will be the first to tell you we have a long way to go before we are a good team. ^ This. Yes.
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Post by twizman on Dec 29, 2016 0:50:46 GMT -5
I guess none of you remember that Wright State was a top 100 program and 20+ game winner every year Brownell was here. We had a legit shot at the NIT many of those years. We were playing in a HL that was ranked between 11-14 in all of those years with multiple HL teams ranked in the top 100 most years. By the end of this season, we might not have a team in the HL that finishes in the top 100. Anyone that still has delusions that this is a good team just needs to take a few minutes and listen to our own head coach. He will be the first to tell you we have a long way to go before we are a good team. I remember those four years well. What about the Schilling, Biancardi and Donlon eras, combined? The four year stretch of BrownellBall that you speak of was great, but it was just four years. It was, unfortunately, eclipsed by the Schilling, Biancardi and Donlon eras combined, since they lasted almost 2 decades in total.
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Post by Big D on Dec 29, 2016 10:21:06 GMT -5
I guess none of you remember that Wright State was a top 100 program and 20+ game winner every year Brownell was here. We had a legit shot at the NIT many of those years. We were playing in a HL that was ranked between 11-14 in all of those years with multiple HL teams ranked in the top 100 most years. By the end of this season, we might not have a team in the HL that finishes in the top 100. Anyone that still has delusions that this is a good team just needs to take a few minutes and listen to our own head coach. He will be the first to tell you we have a long way to go before we are a good team. 06/07 7-6 non-conference 07/08 7-3 non-conference 08/09 6-6 non-conference 09/10 7-4 non-conference Pretty stellar stuff there....This team might not be very good, and if they go .500 in league play we'll know, but if we're calling the Brownell era teams good than this team is comparable based on their non-conference record. Can we at least agree that we're 4-5 wins better than we all expected to be? I have 2 things to say in reply then this discussion is over for me. 1. As I pointed out in my post that you quoted, WSU finished in the top 100 in each of those years. We did that because we played a stronger schedule than we played this year. Saying that we are having a comparable season this year based on OOC record is complete and utter BS. We had a similar record vs a much tougher schedule. If you look at the RPI forecast sites we are predicted to finish with an RPI in the 180s. We currently have an RPI of 128. In case you are bad at math sub 100 is always better than 128 or 180+. 2. Coach Nagy has said after every single game and at every coaching show and every basketball event I have been present at this year that WE ARE NOT A GOOD BASKETBALL TEAM. That is our coach talking. You guys are arguing against statistics above. You are arguing against your own coach here. Coach Nagy is rebuilding our program. There are only a handful of guys on our roster that he would have signed to our team if he was our coach when we signed them. Nothing against the other guys but they don't fit his system. I think he has done a good job making do with what he has this year. That being said, we are 3-4 years away from seeing what Nagy can do here. He has to put together a roster of "his players" before you will see that. He also doesn't believe in quick fixes. He is willing to bring in a guy and red-shirt him to get the most out of the kid. We see that this year with Big Lou. You see that in some of the kids he is recruiting. Jaylon Hall for example is a kid we would like to sign. He is a really talented player that is just scratching his potential. Physically, he needs to red-shirt. That is beyond obvious if you look at his recruiting profile pic on the recruiting board. If we sign him, I have no doubt that we will offer him the opportunity to red-shirt. That is not in the best interest of our team next year, but in the long term it is in the best interest of our program. Like it or not, those are the type of decisions Coach Nagy is going to make.
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Post by twizman on Dec 29, 2016 12:42:07 GMT -5
Coaches say stuff like that all the time publicly. They don't usually come out and say stuff like "We're good." They want to keep their players motivated. So, even if a coach believes his team is good, he's not going to brag about it to the media. I remember Urban Meyer calling his WRs a "clown show" when he took over at Ohio State. Most of those guys in the "clown show" are now playing in the NFL (Mike Thomas, Philly Brown, Devin Smith, etc).
Furthermore, we're all in agreement the Brownell era was excellent. No one is disputing that. But it was just four years. Four years is a drop in the bucket when you look at our overall tradition. What about the rest of our time as a D-I team? This is in response to JazzFan who thinks WSU fans are accustomed to watching some good program. We had a really good four-year stretch under Brownell and that's pretty much it. Again, does anyone want to pretend we were a good program during the Schilling/Biancardi/Donlon years? Didn't think so.
I'm sure people will be coming to this thread with an "I told you so" if we lose at Oakland tonight. Keep in mind we're 10-point underdogs.
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Post by Big D on Dec 29, 2016 13:15:49 GMT -5
Coaches say stuff like that all the time publicly. They don't usually come out and say stuff like "We're good." They want to keep their players motivated. So, even if a coach believes his team is good, he's not going to brag about it to the media. . Twiz, I've tried to be nice to you in this conversation but quite honestly I'm getting tired of you intergecting your ignorance into this conversation. Coach Nagy is a very straight shooter. You can go back and talk to fans or the media at his previous job and they will all tell you that. He says exactly what he means. I have had the privilege of talking to him privately several times. He knows I run this site and I am a fairly large donor to athletics. I am afforded more info than the average fan. I can tell you that what he has said publically is what he says privately. If anything he is more blunt on the matter privately. As I mentioned above, he would not have recruited the majority of the roster he inherited. They are not his type of players. He is not happy with how this team has played this year. If you have seen his SDSU teams play in the past, you will understand why. We are playing no where near the level he wants or expects from his teams. You may be happy with the level of play of this team, but I KNOW our coach is not.
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Post by twizman on Dec 29, 2016 15:32:30 GMT -5
Big D, I appreciate your wisdom as it seems you might be closer to the program than anyone. I respect that. But reasonable people can disagree. We just simply disagree that this team is/isn't good.
And I would also disagree you've been nice to me in this thread. Your first post in this thread made fun of my opinion that the Raiders are a "good" team this year. You didn't just say you disagreed and explained why, you said I was foolish for thinking we're good just because we're second in RPI in the HL when the HL isn't very good. Said we were just the "second-best turd in a large pile of shit."
But this is where we disagree. We agree that the HL isn't good, but I'll take being in second in RPI in this league for sure, especially in the first year with our new coach in what many expected would be a rebuiding year. Sure doesn't feel like a rebuilding year so far.
We're going to finish in the top-3 of the HL this season IMO, higher than anyone expected, and to me that's "good." Not sure why everyone is getting hot under the collar that I'm calling our team good. It's like someone telling you you're good looking and you decide to yell at them and insist you're actually ugly. Just don't understand fellow WSU fans having a problem with "some" of us who think this is a good team. 7-4 with some really nice pieces. Let's not forget Mark Alstork is one of the best players in the HL. Steven Davis is having a breakout season and will probably be second-team All-HL (Alstork will definitely be first-team). Then there are some other good players like 'Zinger and Mitchell.
No one said we're great, but I maintain we're "good."
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We're good
Dec 29, 2016 18:46:55 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by keithfromxenia on Dec 29, 2016 18:46:55 GMT -5
i really do not think there is that much disagreement here. i think most folks think we have a better record than they expected but they know our schedule is pretty sorry. wish folks would quit saying we are 9-4, we are really 7-4. we know that in the past 5 years or so we only recruited one legit post player, karena. so we have no legit div I post player. we really have no legit point guard either.
finishing in the top half of the current hl is not much of an accomplishment. i do think coach will get the max out of this group but mostly i look forward to him building a quality div i program in this town that fans can be proud of.
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Post by twizman on Feb 11, 2017 21:09:52 GMT -5
Good, we are.
Not great. But 17-9, 8-5 is certainly "good."
Just wait 'till next year my friends. We're about to tear the HL up.
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Post by Ukraine Train on Feb 11, 2017 21:12:58 GMT -5
Good, we are. Not great. But 17-9, 8-5 is certainly "good." Just wait 'till next year my friends. We're about to tear the HL up. Only if Davis is granted another year of eligibility and Alstork comes back. Without those 2, next year is going to be an even bigger rebuild than this year.
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Post by twizman on Feb 11, 2017 22:12:53 GMT -5
All this talk about Alstork perhaps leaving. I don't get it. He's a Dayton kid who already transferred once. He's now playing in a offensive-minded system that features him as the go-to scorer. Has the chance to come back next year and average 20+ and really make his mark on college basketball. A transfer is possible since he would be eligble immediately (if he graduates this spring) but I doubt it will happen. WSU is where Mark needs to be. At the very least, he will turn himself into a professional player in Europe after one more season working on his craft at WSU.
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Post by Big D on Feb 11, 2017 22:27:58 GMT -5
All this talk about Alstork perhaps leaving. I don't get it. He's a Dayton kid who already transferred once. He's now playing in a offensive-minded system that features him as the go-to scorer. Has the chance to come back next year and average 20+ and really make his mark on college basketball. A transfer is possible since he would be eligble immediately (if he graduates this spring) but I doubt it will happen. WSU is where Mark needs to be. At the very least, he will turn himself into a professional player in Europe after one more season working on his craft at WSU. Did you notice in all of the stuff you just mentioned, you never talked about his chance to win here next year. Mark is a competitive guy who sees himself as a pro player. If he thinks Davis is coming back and the recruits we are bringing in give WSU a chance to go to the post season next year I think Mark will decide to stay. If he doesn't think we can win next year I think he transfers somewhere that can make it to the Dance and give him more exposure and help his pro chances. Mark doesn't see himself as a European player. He thinks he can play in the D league and eventually the NBA. I hope he comes back next year. We will all have to wait and see what he decides to do.
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Post by hhgreen on Feb 12, 2017 6:23:30 GMT -5
Don't disagree with you at all on what you said Big D. If we were to get Davis and Alstork back playing next year and having Mitchell and Benzinger with a point guard next year I can see us ruling the Horizon next year. It could be one of best teams we have had at WSU. Scheduling good teams next year could be even tougher with 4 senior starters back.
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