HL tournament 2021

[nomeara]

Solid input, I agree with a lot of that. It will be interesting to see if the HL uses any of the methods from this year going forward. I assume a lot of us want the double bye in the tournament to return but maybe with a smaller gap between the last regular season game and the first tournament game?

[Retired Coach]

I think WSU and CSU are going to win the rest of their regular season games and we are going to end up with the #2 seed. The more I think about it, I actually think it is a good thing for us. We haven't done well in the HL tournament recently. I don't know if it was because we were too confident going into it or too comfortable knowing that we already had the NIT bid in our back pocket. There really is no advantage being the 1 vs the 2, 3, or 4 seed this year. If anything I think our team will go into the tournament pissed off and wanting to prove something if they don't finish in first place. I think we have always played better as the underdog with something to prove. I really like this team. When we are on and playing good team basketball, I think we are good enough to win a game or 2 in the NCAAs.

[wsuraider09]

Interesting to wonder...If WSU and CSU both win out, do the top two change. CSU could potentially have 4 wins against IPFW who is 299th in the NET, while WSU will not face them during the regular season. Just interesting discussion, as we can see that in-conference W-L records seem to be not as large of a factor if you look at the women's rankings. I would whole-heartedly imagine that WSU will overtake CSU if CSU slips up down the stretch. We're winning at a higher margin and have the Vikings beat by over 100 spots in today's NET.

[5string]

Seems reasonable that could happen. Would be nice if the HL shared the formula...

[wsuraider09]

Another way of looking at this is quality of wins vs quality of losses.

WSU has losses to #1, #3, and #5 and only one close on the entire season and that was against #12 RUM last weekend. The other 13 conference games have been blow out wins (10+)
CSU has losses to #2 and #8, with close wins against #2, #3, #7 (twice), #9, and #11 (twice). CSU only has two 10 point conference wins. Two.

[refrigeratorraider]

There's no way of telling without knowing the formula, but the only way I see WSU overtaking CSU is if A) CSU slips up more than the Raiders the rest of the way or B) CSU misses some games and WSU does not. The key is that nowhere has the league said margin of victory or efficiency is part of the formula. A 1-point win counts the same as a 30-point win. Wright State is great in the NET and other similar rankings because it takes into account offensive and defensive efficiency. The league ranking system appears to be closer to the old RPI, which this season, Cleveland State would be doing better than Wright State.

[Dr J]

At the present Detroit has something to play for, a split gives them a good shot at top 4. A sweep by Detroit gives good shot at #3. A sweep by Cleveland State weakens chance for top 4.

[nomeara]

Like everybody else I just don’t understand this formula. Oakland at 8-8 is ahead of NKU at 9-5 and they don’t play each other this year. NKU not only has the better conference record but a better overall record as well. That’s crazy to me. We need to know how this works if they are confident using it.

[gerb]

Right. I understand WSU is in second place. That’s fine. As for the rest, I’m sure any formula with weighted games and teams playing varying numbers of games is going rattle things at least a bit. The fact that they didn’t announce what the hell the formula is is crazy. I sincerely doubt they would do it, but in theory the league office could order things things however they felt like from week to week .

How much is record, how much is RPI, how much is margin of victory, and how much is putting a hamster in the middle and seeing which team name it walks to first?

[commissioner]

Detroit is 3 games ahead of YSU in the standings and beat YSU twice in Youngstown. YSU #5, Detroit #6. Go figure. One also has to admire how the league penalizes teams for not playing games because the other team had Covid issues.

The Raiders are easily the best team in the HL this year. Assuming CSU goes on and wins the regular season, it really doesn't matter if you're seeded first or second--you get a first round bye, a second round home game, and then would play two games in Indy, including (presumably) CSU in the final. You might have to play slightly higher seeds in the quarters and semis, but given the parity in the rest of the league, I don't much see how that matters.

[Love and Raider Basketball]

I completely agree with Commish here. When it comes to the tournament format, it really doesn’t matter if you win the league as long as you finish in the top 4.

However, I still really want to win the league for nothing else but to guarantee this team gets remembered with a banner in the Nutter Center. We all know well that the tournament is a crap shoot, so a second place finish and not winning the tournament, would leave arguably the best team in Raider history with no place in its history books.

[Dr J]

Feb 10, 2021 8:23:27 GMT -5 commissioner said:

Detroit is 3 games ahead of YSU in the standings and beat YSU twice in Youngstown. YSU #5, Detroit #6. Go figure. One also has to admire how the league penalizes teams for not playing games because the other team had Covid issues.

The Raiders are easily the best team in the HL this year. Assuming CSU goes on and wins the regular season, it really doesn't matter if you're seeded first or second--you get a first round bye, a second round home game, and then would play two games in Indy, including (presumably) CSU in the final. You might have to play slightly higher seeds in the quarters and semis, but given the parity in the rest of the league, I don't much see how that matters.

With my understanding of the seeding criteria Oakland and YSU are ahead of Detroit because of games played but more because of quality win over WSU. If Detroit wins one of the games vs CSU, they will be the 4 seed. If they win both they would be 3 seed. After this weekend.

[kingnebwsu]

Feb 10, 2021 8:52:12 GMT -5 Love and Raider Basketball said:

I completely agree with Commish here. When it comes to the tournament format, it really doesn’t matter if you win the league as long as you finish in the top 4.

However, I still really want to win the league for nothing else but to guarantee this team gets remembered with a banner in the Nutter Center. We all know well that the tournament is a crap shoot, so a second place finish and not winning the tournament, would leave arguably the best team in Raider history with no place in its history books.

This team really has been playing on an all-time level recently. Obviously the competition is not great but in my 24 years as a WSU fan I don't remember a 7 game winning streak where the average margin of victory is 25+ points.

WSU is on a historic run and I hope it continues for another 10 games into the sweet 16!

Realistic aspirations are important.

[wsuraider09]

All hypothetical, but WSU would be the one seed under normal tiebreaker rules if the season ended today. Hard to say that the "new rules" should give us a different result if WSU and CSU win out. WSU 2-0 against #3 Detroit, CSU 0-1.

[Dr J]

Feb 12, 2021 23:44:33 GMT -5 wsuraider09 said:

All hypothetical, but WSU would be the one seed under normal tiebreaker rules if the season ended today. Hard to say that the "new rules" should give us a different result if WSU and CSU win out. WSU 2-0 against #3 Detroit, CSU 0-1.

We are number 1 seed at present. If stayed tied we will be #1 because Cleveland State plays Fort Wayne 4 times and UIC zero. This is where strength of schedule comes in play. Winning the regular season championship is now totally on our own shoulders. We got the help needed now we have to win out.