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Post by bballraider on Feb 15, 2021 23:10:03 GMT -5
Actually the NET rankings are part of the previous tie breaking scenarios. See #5 below. Horizon League tie breakers horizonleague.org/sports/2019/2/26/MBB_0226194917.aspxTie-Breaker Policy Ties in winning percentage, and thus for seeding positions, shall be broken according to the following principles and formula utilizing head-to-head competition and results against common opponents. Tie-Breaker Principles (a) All ties will be broken in the order in which they occur, from top to bottom, in the standings unless there is a tie that can be broken using head-to-head competition only. If there is a tie that can be broken using head-to-head competition only, that tie shall be broken first. Remaining ties shall then be broken from top to bottom. The elimination of ties will be used for tournament seeding and bracketing purposes only. (b) Only regular-season Horizon League games, exclusive of tournament and/or exhibition games, will be used in the tie-breaking formula. (c) When comparing tied teams against positions LOWER in the standings which are also tied, those LOWER TIED POSITIONS shall be considered as a SINGLE POSITION for purposes of comparison. (Example: Team A and team B tied for second would compare against Team X and Team Y tied for sixth as follows: Team A would compare its combined record against BOTH X and Y against Team B’s combined record against both X and Y.) Tie-Breaker Formula 1.) If two tied teams met twice during the regular season and one of the two won both games, the winner shall be awarded the higher seed. 2.) If two tied teams split in two games during the regular season, compare each tied team’s record against the team occupying the highest position in the standings and continue down through the standings until one team gains the advantage, thereby winning the higher position. 3.) If three or more teams are tied, compare the combined record of each of the tied teams against the other teams involved in the tie until an advantage is gained. (Example: Team A’s combined record against both Team B and Team C as compared to Team B’s combined record against both A and C, etc.) 4.) If the provision of (3) above fails to resolve a tie involving three or more teams, compare each of the tied team’s records against the team occupying the highest position in the standings and continue down through the standings until the tie is reduced to a two-team tie (at which time revert to items (1) and (2) above or until the tie is broken. 5.) If the above provisions fail to resolve a tie, the team with the higher NET on the first available report after the regular season is complete for that season will receive a higher seed (source: NCAA). |
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Post by bballraider on Feb 15, 2021 23:17:11 GMT -5
At the end of the day, it is what it is. If both schools win out then we are regular season co-champs. The 1-4 seeds have the same practical advantage to one another. If anything I think it helps our team to get the 2 seed. I think it will piss them off and give them a little more motivation going into the HL tournament. It also takes the NIT off the table which takes away that fall back option of post season play which should be another motivating factor. The only way to get into the post season is to win the HL tournament. We need that mentality. I agree. I’m also okay if we aren’t awarded the 1 seed based on a formula. I think the Raiders play harder when the feel slighted. And finishing 2nd to a team that we beat so badly after a very close loss, would inspire these guys in the HL tourney. |
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Post by frankiemeatballs on Feb 16, 2021 5:19:41 GMT -5
So let me get this straight Frankie. We cannot use the national metrics because we have never used them before. We can use this cockamamie system the hl created that we have......,.,wait for it.......,never used before. makes sense!!! leave it to the hl to create a bizarre system instead of using an easily measurable thing like the net, used for postseason selections. That’s not what I said. I was responding to the thought that the formula was taking something away from what Wright State would have in a normal year, and that same person who said that used those ratings to back up their point. My point: those ratings were never a part of the traditional tie-breaker (until you got way down the list of tie-breakers which practically never happened). My second point: the HL needed to create some temporary way of determining seeding because it’s impossible with so many variables in this year’s schedule to simply go by win-loss record. If they would have chosen NET rankings as the tie-breaker that would have been flawed too, but I would’ve been ok with it. But they didn’t, so unfortunately for WSU, the NET is irrelevant as it comes to seeding. |
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 17, 2021 14:48:45 GMT -5
Wasn't 100% sure where to stick this, but clearly the coaches and ADs know stuff the fans don't. Coach Kampe is apparently going to spill the guts on what he knows tonight in his radio show.
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Post by 5string on Feb 17, 2021 17:09:47 GMT -5
I will say this for Kampe -- he usually tells it like it is.
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Post by refrigeratorraider on Feb 18, 2021 7:31:12 GMT -5
Here is a link to his show if anyone wants to listen. He mainly focused on what led to the formula, why there's a formula, and who decided on everything. www.iheart.com/podcast/139-oakland-golden-grizzlies-27833424/I believe he said YSU was the only team unaffected by HL game cancellations, which would be incorrect as the Raiders have played the original full schedule assigned to them so far. If WSU and CSU are still tied in the standings after this weekend, it's really unfortunate that CSU will most likely be recognized as the league champion mainly because their series with Robert Morris was cancelled and replaced with a 2nd series against Purdue Fort Wayne. PFW only lost by 2 in their first game. Hopefully they can do WSU a favor and pull off an upset. I will add that there is something I wish the league would have done when games started to get cancelled. I wish they would have adjusted schedules as necessary on a week-by-week basis, doing all they could to prevent 2 teams from playing each other more than twice in the season. This wouldn't have made everything perfect, but it would have at least made things a bit more even/fair. |
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 18, 2021 9:09:36 GMT -5
Here is a link to his show if anyone wants to listen. He mainly focused on what led to the formula, why there's a formula, and who decided on everything. www.iheart.com/podcast/139-oakland-golden-grizzlies-27833424/I believe he said YSU was the only team unaffected by HL game cancellations, which would be incorrect as the Raiders have played the original full schedule assigned to them so far. If WSU and CSU are still tied in the standings after this weekend, it's really unfortunate that CSU will most likely be recognized as the league champion mainly because their series with Robert Morris was cancelled and replaced with a 2nd series against Purdue Fort Wayne. PFW only lost by 2 in their first game. Hopefully they can do WSU a favor and pull off an upset. I will add that there is something I wish the league would have done when games started to get cancelled. I wish they would have adjusted schedules as necessary on a week-by-week basis, doing all they could to prevent 2 teams from playing each other more than twice in the season. This wouldn't have made everything perfect, but it would have at least made things a bit more even/fair. The Mastodons have dropped 8 straight, but seem to match up well with the Vikings. CSU beat them in Fort Wayne by 2 and by 9, which isn't really surprising as the Vikings have won 12 of 14 games conference games by 10 points of less (a metric that we handily own them in, but one that doesn't matter in the "magic formula"). What's interesting is that IPFW guard Jarred Godfrey had two breakout games dropping 23 and 21 as the Viking struggled to contain him. Hopefully the Mastodons pull out some senior weekend magic as it could be the last time their 4 seniors take their home court...Fingers crossed. It would be awfully tragic for this team not to be able to raise a regular season championship banner because of one bad game, and 5 seconds of bad game-ending defense across two games. |
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Post by Love and Raider Basketball on Feb 18, 2021 10:06:24 GMT -5
This weekend basically comes down to this:
Assuming both teams win out, it would all come down to strength of schedule. We want to root for Robert Morris and UIC and hope one or both finish ahead of IPFW. The other three factors are essentially a tie.
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Post by raiderfan14 on Feb 18, 2021 12:08:57 GMT -5
Since seeing your post the other day, and having taken time to listen to an explanation on coach Kampes show I ran some numbers. It sounds like it’s heavily weighted on road games. Wsu 7-1 road CSU 7-1 road Cleveland state and Wright state both will play 10 road games. So far with current conference rankings on road games CSU through 8 games (10,10,9,9,2,2,3,3) 48 total Wright state has (6,6,3,3,9,9,11,11) 58 total. This indicates CSU has had a tougher road schedule. After this weekends games though add 48 + 10+10= 68 After this weekends games wsu will be 58+4+4= 66 This would put wright state ahead of CSU barely, and obviously through this weekends games all those rankings can shift and throw those numbers either direction. My point is I think there is a way Wright state can win the conference if both teams win both games but we shall see. In the end we need to win the conference tournament to be dancing. Go Raiders!! Cue up the discussion; does sweeping NKU move us ahead of CSU? Raiders current wins: 1,3,5,6,6,7,7,8,8,9,9,11,11,12,12 avg = 7.6 Vikings current wins: 2,3,3,4,4,5,5,6,7,7,8,9,9,10,10 avg = 6.1 Raiders current losses: 1, 3, 5 avg = 3 Vikings current losses: 2, 6, 8 avg = 5.3 Raiders have two home losses to teams 1 and 5. Vikings have two home losses to teams 6 and 8. Next weekend assuming sweeps, WSU could move their average to a better position of 7.2 Next weekend assuming sweeps, CSU could move their average to a worse position of 6.6 All of this math assumes that teams don't change next week, which they assuredly will. It just makes me feel like the only way we end up with the #1 seed (which we can all agree isn't critical by any stretch) is that CSU loses next week. It just irks me a bit that under normal tiebreakers, we would be the 1 seed, and we're getting the short end of the stick by this new metric. The fact that CSU didn't play UIC or RMU and we didn't play IPFW shouldn't be costing us the seed we would normally receive. |
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 19, 2021 10:06:01 GMT -5
HL announced just now, no fans for any tournament games at campus sites OR in Indy.
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Post by Big D on Feb 19, 2021 10:09:47 GMT -5
Can we bring our fan cutouts  |
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 19, 2021 11:18:30 GMT -5
One hour later, the NCAA announced limited capacity will be able to attend NCAA tournament games. But this asshat of a league couldn't figure out how to do it successfully in the same city using the same arena. What a mockery.
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Post by gerb on Feb 19, 2021 11:46:12 GMT -5
One hour later, the NCAA announced limited capacity will be able to attend NCAA tournament games. But this asshat of a league couldn't figure out how to do it successfully in the same city using the same arena. What a mockery. I wouldn’t call this particular move one of asshattery. The league has operated this way all year without on-site incident. Why change it now? Cardboard cutouts represent! |
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 19, 2021 18:01:16 GMT -5
I *think* we are YSU fans this weekend so IUPUI falls and UIC has an easier path to rise. Penguins lead the Jaguars at the moment.
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Post by wsuraider09 on Feb 19, 2021 21:03:40 GMT -5
CSU adds a loss to team #10.
WSU losses to 1,3,4,5 avg = 3.25
CSU losses to 2,6,8,10 avg = 6.5
Not sure it's worth anything, but I wanted to provide updated math after today's results.
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