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Post by jerrygball on Mar 9, 2024 16:39:23 GMT -5
wsuairstrike you make some good points when you look at the two losses at home to Milwaukee and NKU in the conference tourney, that starts to build a bit more of a negative resume for Nagy overall. Both pretty terrible losses. I believe the Milwaukee game though had no fans at the Nutter Center...I still see the Covid years of all sports in my opinion as outlier years in my opinion. It was all distorted, I mean the Lakers won a championship in a bubble, Dodgers won the World Series on a neutral field...Baylor's NCAA Championship I think they were deserving, but overall I give a mulligan for about everyone in those seasons.
I still give Nagy two more years before he would be on the hot seat for me.
I follow the Bearcats and they had a very deep team and are like 11th in the Big 12, so just being deep doesn't necessarily mean being at the top of the league. I thought they were pretty talented too. I would like to see Nagy play more guys, but we've been saying that for his whole tenure. I do think all the transferring effected some of that.They would have had some really talented teams if Potter, Hall, Winchester, Malachi Smith, all those guys stayed around.
It's kind of interesting...look at Xavier, Butler, Valpo...some of those teams who moved onto greener pastures away from the MCC, Horizon. They're all not doing too great. Who in the world would have thought Loyola of Chicago would be the most successful program to move away from the Horizon recently?!
All that to say...Nagy and the program are overall good, and sometimes the grass isn't greener with changes. But a few more 18-15 seasons, losses in the first or 2nd round, I'd be with those saying it's time for a change. We'll see what happens!
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Post by keithfromxenia on Mar 9, 2024 16:53:09 GMT -5
big d, I hope you are having a good day. I remember a little pg, first name Reggie,who as a freshman had more turnovers than assists and probably averaged 6ppg. He got a lot of criticism but…he was a freshman. He went on to develop into a pretty decent pg. Was it Al McGuire who said the only good thing about freshmen is they become sophomores. If a mid major is going to have success player development is the key. without it we go nowhere.
I am not sure our coach can change but the transfer portal may lead to player losses if we continue redshirting freshmen. If we are recruiting decent players they may just pack up and go if they spend a season on the bench.
the environment of college sports has changed. If a coach cannot change with it he will have serious problems being competitive.
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Post by wsuairstrike on Mar 9, 2024 18:40:18 GMT -5
big d, I hope you are having a good day. I remember a little pg, first name Reggie,who as a freshman had more turnovers than assists and probably averaged 6ppg. He got a lot of criticism but…he was a freshman. He went on to develop into a pretty decent pg. Was it Al McGuire who said the only good thing about freshmen is they become sophomores. If a mid major is going to have success player development is the key. without it we go nowhere. I am not sure our coach can change but the transfer portal may lead to player losses if we continue redshirting freshmen. If we are recruiting decent players they may just pack up and go if they spend a season on the bench. the environment of college sports has changed. If a coach cannot change with it he will have serious problems being competitive. Keith that pg was not very good. At least we are away from those years. Now if only Nagy could win with a much more talented offense. |
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Post by wsuairstrike on Mar 9, 2024 19:00:42 GMT -5
Jerry I hear what you're saying but being 11th in the big 12 is like a guaranteed horizon league regular season win and sleep walking to win by 20 plus in the hl championship. It's not comparable, imo. The other teams you mentioned that left the hl, I understand what you're saying too. But we aren't lighting this crap league on fire. So yeah I'd much rather leave and finish near the bottom in decent conference, then finish 2-6 in the HL. Imo, not winning the HL is just as good as finishing in last place. No one in the country cares what team finished 2nd place in the HL. Also if we somehow were able to get out of the HL, it'd more then likely benefit our baseball team.
I don't disagree at all about all the talent we had that transferred. We can get the talent, we can even develop it, but we can't seem to win. That's all that matters when you're in a low tier conference.
Edited Note: I believe this is Nagy's final year on his contract. I don't think there's a way we could give him another extension if he can't win next season. There's no way we could afford a buy out of 600k on X years. I don't see Nagy signing on for just one more year too. Coaches would need a guaranteed contract with more then just one year. They'd be stupid not to do that.
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Post by keithfromxenia on Mar 9, 2024 19:26:26 GMT -5
I have seen posts like yours, Jerry for 2+ decades. I’ve never understood how a fan of a program can set and be satisfied with mediocre results. But I must say you topped it all this week with “Nagy will field a top 5 team in the ‘sucky’ hl” (sucky is my word but it does apply). Have we really really sunk so low for that to be our bar?? The bar for our program used to be that we would play a nationally ranked butler team and beat them. Our bar used to be that we were as good as the team across town and as good a div I program. We got angry as a fan base when they said we were not good enough for a home and home, that maybe we could have a buy game. We were offended and considered it an insult. Now we just strive to be a “top 5 program “ in a sucking league. Wow what a comedown!!!
Last year we were a 7 seed in the hl and lost round 2. This year a 4 seed and lost round1. At home!!!! At home!!! The year everyone got so excited because we beat Bryant in the play in game we were a 16 seed . We just are moving in the wrong direction. After 35 years in div I we should be doing better than this.
My belief this program could be way better is based on real life. If you want to do something interesting look back at the past 20-25 years of ncaa tournaments. Look how many mid major programs made nice runs in the dance. Sweet 16, elite 8, even final 4. That is what a mid major can do. That is a bar that could be set. And it can be done.
There have been conversations on here about the pros and cons of moving up in conference quality. Whether it would make our program better. ( don’t get me wrong we have done nothing to merit a move up). Folks use valpo as an example of not benefiting but I saw two great examples on tv last week of what it can do to help build the program. I watched butler, the team we used to be eyeball to eyeball with, playing Xavier on tv. Hinkle was packed and rockin! And they are in the big east now , one of the multi bid leagues. Then I watched another old friend, the Loyola ramblers on national tv playing Dayton. The gentile was packed and rockin!! Having listened on the radio to games with Loyola where it sounded like they were playing in an empty barn the difference in atmosphere was dramatic and they knocked off dayton and are 2nd in the a-10. They are one of the mid majors who recently made the final 4.So both these programs received a shot of adrenaline with their league upgrades. Who knows maybe someday……..
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Post by Raider3G on Mar 9, 2024 19:27:29 GMT -5
I don't disagree at all about all the talent we had that transferred. We can get the talent, we can even develop it, but we can't seem to win. That's all that matters when you're in a low tier conference. Edited Note: I believe this is Nagy's final year on his contract. I don't think there's a way we could give him another extension if he can't win next season. There's no way we could afford a buy out of 600k on X years. I don't see Nagy signing on for just one more year too. Coaches would need a guaranteed contract with more then just one year. They'd be stupid not to do that. Do you mean this most recently completed season was his last or this upcoming year (2024-2025). Last reported they added years in 2018 to end through 2023....they must have extended it again a few years somewhere along the way (I thought he had two more years left after this year). |
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Post by wsuairstrike on Mar 9, 2024 20:32:23 GMT -5
I don't disagree at all about all the talent we had that transferred. We can get the talent, we can even develop it, but we can't seem to win. That's all that matters when you're in a low tier conference. Edited Note: I believe this is Nagy's final year on his contract. I don't think there's a way we could give him another extension if he can't win next season. There's no way we could afford a buy out of 600k on X years. I don't see Nagy signing on for just one more year too. Coaches would need a guaranteed contract with more then just one year. They'd be stupid not to do that. Do you mean this most recently completed season was his last or this upcoming year (2024-2025). Last reported they added years in 2018 to end through 2023....they must have extended it again a few years somewhere along the way (I thought he had two more years left after this year). Ecb123 - I thought this upcoming year (next year in my mind since the ncaa tournament is not concluded), 24-25, is his last year. I'm not 100% but thought in past discussions, this is it. They'll let him finish out regardless since we can't afford a buy out. |
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Post by Dr J on Mar 9, 2024 21:05:03 GMT -5
I googled and latest I saw was contract over last year. But I thought they extended two years then. If correct then 2024-25 would be last.
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Post by hokieraider on Mar 10, 2024 0:57:42 GMT -5
He has IMHO one year to get an NCAA or he his and should be out. So if he wins 23 games next year, and loses on a buzzer beater in the HL championship game, you would still fire him??? Unbelievable. We all know the league tourney is a crap shoot. If Calvin had missed the last second shot 2 years ago, per another poster that would have been a wasted season. No coach could ever meet those expectations. To me, Nagy has been the best and most productive coach in our history (you can debate Ralph and BB). 2 NCAA appearances, 1 NCAA victory, NIT appearance, several regular season league titles, and 3 road wins over ACC schools. That track record should yield some cushion to survive one or two years that didn't meet expectations (and we're not talking about abysmal 6-25 seasons here...). If the next two years look like the last two, then the seat gets very hot, but until then, give him a chance to turn it around. |
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Post by hhgreen on Mar 10, 2024 9:23:01 GMT -5
Nagy has been good for Wright State overall. He runs a clean program. I think he deserves another 3 years at WSU. Face it recruiting at WSU is not going to get the Big 5 conference caliber players. Recruiting bigger more physical players is tough here and needed.
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Post by Dr J on Mar 10, 2024 16:19:45 GMT -5
I’m not a proponent of firing Nagy. I am a proponent of seeing improvement in use of the talent. Playing 7-8 players in the game hasn’t worked and he is unwilling to make a change. He needs to change some philosophies and strategies about the game. It will be interesting to see if anyone goes in the portal. Next year we lose significant talent.
Will be interesting to see how the redshirt freshmen perform and if he uses the good incoming freshmen. If he uses a 8-10 rotation and speeds the game up, then it might make a difference n the results.
I also think he needs to show as much energy on the sidelines as he wants from the players on the court.
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Post by Raider3G on Mar 10, 2024 16:55:06 GMT -5
He has IMHO one year to get an NCAA or he his and should be out. So if he wins 23 games next year, and loses on a buzzer beater in the HL championship game, you would still fire him??? Unbelievable. We all know the league tourney is a crap shoot. If Calvin had missed the last second shot 2 years ago, per another poster that would have been a wasted season. No coach could ever meet those expectations. To me, Nagy has been the best and most productive coach in our history (you can debate Ralph and BB). 2 NCAA appearances, 1 NCAA victory, NIT appearance, several regular season league titles, and 3 road wins over ACC schools. That track record should yield some cushion to survive one or two years that didn't meet expectations (and we're not talking about abysmal 6-25 seasons here...). If the next two years look like the last two, then the seat gets very hot, but until then, give him a chance to turn it around. HokieRaider, you are making the same points many other here, including myself, have made through the years. What's ironic is that Donlon was fired after a loss in a HL championship game (remember...3 games in almost as many nights), including a semi-final win over a loaded OU team. He had six years to get it done and didn't. Nagy's first NCAA team benefited from a quality left-over roster and NKU somehow losing to a 9 seed CSU squad. In the six years since, he has taken the team to one NCAA tourney and had his higher seeded squad lose 4 times in the HL tourney against lower seeded teams (against UIC, MKE, and NKU twice). So, to your question, if he doesn't make it to an NCAA next year, that would be one NCAA berth in the last 7 years. Nagy is a great coach and has had a great career, but look at the salary and ask if that if that is the expected return. As a WSU alum, I don't like seeing him paid that and making some of the comments he made in the press this year. For me, as a fan, the way he discussed his players in the press lost me, especially the dismissive "it's their team" comment. That's BS for any coach, especially someone making his salary in this type of a job and area. |
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Post by vikingdog on Mar 11, 2024 18:21:24 GMT -5
Became sick to my stomach momentarily while watching these semis
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Post by wsuairstrike on Mar 11, 2024 19:48:49 GMT -5
Became sick to my stomach momentarily while watching these semis Yeah this game is absolutely awful! Hopefully Oakland can pull it off but damn both seems look bad. |
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Post by jerrygball on Mar 11, 2024 21:24:29 GMT -5
Keith, my expectations probably have lowered a bit, I'll give you that, hoping to finish in the top 5 not the highest of expectations! It almost doesn't seem to matter much in the HL as far as winning the HL tourney though as long as you don't finish in the bottom 3-4 it seems it's anyone's tournament.
I'm rooting for NKU since they beat the Raiders. I'm probably in the minority, but they don't bug me like Butler did. I think they're a really good solid respectable program that represents the HL well.
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