2020 HL Basketball Tournament

[Ukraine Train]

Mar 10, 2020 0:02:11 GMT -5 keithfromxenia said:

second, Jerry says we are a “a good program “. well we all want us to be. but good is a lot like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder. our average ken Pom the past five years has been 138. that puts us solidly in the middle 1/3 of div i programs. we almost never dance, I do not remember a top 50 team we have beaten in the past five years. shoot, right now I cannot remember a top 100 team we have beaten though I may have forgotten some.

Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and some guys will use whatever data they can come up with to try to justify their argument or use the "I cannot remember" comment to try to justify their argument. You want to use kenpom to justify your argument. The NCAA and almost everyone in America that discusses college basketball ranking using the NET now because it is the standard. Before that it was RPI. You say you cannot remember the last top 100 or top 50 program we have beaten. Well stop bitching and moaning long enough to just look it up because we have at least 1 every year.

This year's OOC schedule sucked. It has been better in the past and it will hopefully be better in the future. Here is how we have stacked up in our RPI, RPI SOS, and top 100/50 wins since Nagy has been here.

2016/17: 115 RPI, 163 SOS, 1 top 100 win
2017/18: 99 RPI, 238 SOS, 1 top 100 win
2018/19: 145 RPI, 204 SOS, 2 top 100 wins, 1 of those was a top 50
2019/20: 125 RPI, 301 SOS, 1 top 100 win

4 year average: 121 RPI and 226 RPI SOS

There are 353 D1 programs out there. Being 121 out of 353 on average is pretty darn good. It's not where any of us want to be but it is pretty darn good especially when you consider that we are a mid-major. I don't have the time or desire to really look into it further but if you eliminate all of the power 5 conference schools that finish above us each year, WSU is probably one of the top 25 true mid-major programs since Nagy has taken over. Once again, none of us are satisfied with that. We all want to be the next Butler or Valpo that dominate this league and gets into a better conference but there is no reason to trash the success this program has had in the last few years because we aren't where you think we should be yet.

[raider62]

In all my years of following sports of all kinds, I think this is the most dejected I have ever felt after a loss. I was so sure that this was our year. I think I'm mourning "what might have been."

Some of us just need a little time to process what happened. But that doesn't make us fair weather fans. It just means we really love our Raiders and had high hopes for this team. I hate seeing this senior class go out on a sad note. I hope they can make some noise in the NIT.

[86grad]

Well said raider62. If I was supporting the Raiders going into the game yesterday, I still have to support them today no matter the outcome. It's hard to get our hopes high for something to happen one way, and then have to deal with the aftermath when things go the other way.

[BasketBallJones]

I can't speak for others on this board, but losing to UIC was not a surprise outcome. However, getting blown out was. That is the real disappointment for me. The team was just not ready to play, and with what was on the line, getting blown out is just not acceptable.

[wsuraider09]

Mar 10, 2020 8:50:15 GMT -5 raider62 said:

In all my years of following sports of all kinds, I think this is the most dejected I have ever felt after a loss. I was so sure that this was our year. I think I'm mourning "what might have been."

Some of us just need a little time to process what happened. But that doesn't make us fair weather fans. It just means we really love our Raiders and had high hopes for this team. I hate seeing this senior class go out on a sad note. I hope they can make some noise in the NIT.

I am right there with you man, and I root for some awful teams. I haven't seen a championship in any sport in any level in my entire sports watching life. Michigan has came close in basketball and in baseball, the Dolphins and Reds are both a joke (although, I'm holding out home that the Reds turn it around this year). But I've never let a loss eat at me like last night's loss did. It's one thing to get there and fall just short (Michigan basketball), but to put such a special season together and to have it all fall apart, and not even be in the game, is utterly demoralizing. I think it really burns for two reasons:

First: I know I haven't been around as long as a lot of fans on this board, and I haven't seen as many years of Raider basketball because I wasn't a student until 05, but I think this might be second to only the 'ship loss to Milwaukee at home. I feel like the "home grown-ness" of this team makes losses feel worse. I've been in those stands for hundreds of games, met the players, traveled with the team on the road...it's just different to lose a game like this than for your NFL or MLB team to lose. This is our team. We know each other, we know these kids. Many of us pay hundreds of dollars a year for season tickets. It burns more when you've got a real investment in a team, you've been around for years, and you've watched it grow. You see the time put in, the work, and you get your expectations raised because of an season of excellence, and then you fall flat, in the biggest game, when you have to play at your best.

Second: I think we all knew that not only were we looking to cap off this season with a tournament title and a reputable tournament seed, part of me knows that we're playing to get out of this league. I'm not saying one loss kills that hope, but it's awfully hard to be the team to take out of this league when our postseason play continues to downright suck. Sure, there's other sports that matter, but if another conference is coming to call, it's because of our basketball prowress, not our golf team. We needed to put a stamp on this season to be the clear dominant team out of the Horizon and look like a team that's ready to make the next step. I know that comes with growing pains, but it's a step I really want this team and this school to take. This team has the capabilities to be the next Wichita State or Butler to rise up from a lower level, play with the big boys, beat them in the national spotlight, and rise out of this conference. I feel like this defeat really puts a damper on those dreams. If NKU win's tonight, winnning 3 of the last 4 makes them that team. And I'll be damned if they go from D2 to D1 to out of this league and bypass right over us. Beating UIC and whipping their asses tonight would have been the cap to that, and would have put us in the best position possible to be that team. The effort put out last night, the lackluster play, the lack of game-preparation and motivation tells me that NKU is that team right now. If I'm the A-10, and I've got a hole to fill, WSU isn't my first choice after last night.

[vernardhollins]

As much as I hate the Horizon League right now, Wright State just isn't prepared financially to move to a better league. Was anybody else embarrassed by the fact
we could only afford to send FOUR dancers and FOUR cheerleaders? While UIC, that draws maybe 1500 fans (most of which are free-loading elementary school students) can
afford to send full squads? It felt like a home game for UIC.
Even though Nagy is having the same problem winning the championships that Donlon had, I believe in his ability to get us where we want to go.

[Big D]

Mar 10, 2020 8:50:15 GMT -5 raider62 said:

In all my years of following sports of all kinds, I think this is the most dejected I have ever felt after a loss. I was so sure that this was our year. I think I'm mourning "what might have been."

Some of us just need a little time to process what happened. But that doesn't make us fair weather fans. It just means we really love our Raiders and had high hopes for this team. I hate seeing this senior class go out on a sad note. I hope they can make some noise in the NIT.

No one said you can’t be disappointed or voice your frustration. But I don’t care how long you need to process the loss you can still be civil about how you voice your frustrations. Most posts in this thread are from upset fans. There are several that go beyond the line when they say outrageous bs like our team sucks and this season was nothing. We failed to reach our goals for the year. There are only 32 team that win their conference tournament. The rest of the teams also fail to reach their goal. Once again I am not happy about this at all but I refuse to post something that I will be ashamed of reading a month from now. And I seriously hope the fans that posted some of that bs last night are already embarrassed of what they wrote. I expected more from our team last night. I also expected more from our fan base.

[raiderfan14]

I have 3 great seats available if anyone reading wants them at a discounted rate? I’m sure many of you reading have the same issue as I do but it’s worth a try.

[Dr J]

I’m going to reply to a lot of the people posting. I’m disappointed, but only 1/10th of the disappointment of the players, coaches, staff, etc. a big thanks to the coaches and players for an enjoyable regular season. Now is the time for coaches, players,, staff and fans to focus on the NIT. How many would be happy if we would win the NIT? Winning the NIT may not seem likely but anything is possible. Like the Raiders taking down MSU and then they won the National Champiobship. GO RAIDERS

[raiderrunt]

Mar 10, 2020 13:16:06 GMT -5 Dr J said:

I’m going to reply to a lot of the people posting. I’m disappointed, but only 1/10th of the disappointment of the players, coaches, staff, etc. a big thanks to the coaches and players for an enjoyable regular season. Now is the time for coaches, players,, staff and fans to focus on the NIT. How many would be happy if we would win the NIT? Winning the NIT may not seem likely but anything is possible. Like the Raiders taking down MSU and then they won the National Championship. GO RAIDERS

Dr. J..........well said, I agree.

[raiders93]

The Norse are ballin. They’ve been the king of the HL and the team to beat since they joined. Another missed opportunity by Wright State. Hope to put a run together in the NIT.

[Raider3G]

As disappointing as last night is, most of us can probably agree the program is taking the steps that should have occurred back in 2007-2009. It was after that NCAA berth that WSU missed on chances to follow-up to the 2006-2007 tourney (ex. losing to 6th seed Valpo one year after NCAA berth). The 2009-2010 team had a great chance at an at-large NIT bid, but blew games at Ohio (Bracketbuster) and at CSU near the end of the year---the NIT projections had them in as a 5 or 6 seed before those losses. It's a major credit to Nagy and his staff that they haven't let the momentum of 2017-2018 peter out...and actually achieved new things that hadn't happened. These include many (But not all) of the same steps that other mid-majors that have broken through have done; and which WSU shoulda/woulda/coulda done 10 years ago. That is multi-year postseason play and fan-base wide expectation of post-season play. The program has progressed from NCAA bit, to share of HL regular season, to outright regular season. At various points the last decade, if one looks at Wichita State, Penn State, Baylor, TCU, and another team that will remain nameless, success in the NIT preceded greater success. One would have to guess such success was one, major factor that allowed them to sustain higher levels of recruitment that later translated into NCAA appearances and success.

As disappointing as last night was, I'll frankly be just as disappointed if we don't win games in this year's NIT. And regardless of that, I think next year is THE most important year for WSU as a D-I program. There are key pieces back; coach just renewed his contract; there are three promising freshman returning that got a boatload of experience; and two guys that redshirted (Finke and Harris) that will help...Finke, I think many will agree, is perhaps the most important piece besides Loudon for next year. I'd be shocked if more than 2 transfer out, and there are grad seniors that may transfer in to ease that.

If the scheduling can include a high quality MTE, and 1-2 games against quality Power 5 opponents, then I think it is very reasonable for WSU to be in the conversation for an at large bid when Jan 2021 rolls around. And it may have to be that way...since moving away from campus sites, no number 1 seed has won the HL tourney.

[keithfromxenia]

well I just flipped on ESPN and saw that for the third time in four years one team is representing the hl in the NCAA. and it isn’t us. we have watched a team with 6-7 years of div i time become the premier team in our league. I just wish that pissed off more people than just me!!

Abut hey, at least there is the nit!!

[Willie]

Mar 10, 2020 21:29:51 GMT -5 keithfromxenia said:

well I just flipped on ESPN and saw that for the third time in four years one team is representing the hl in the NCAA. and it isn’t us. we have watched a team with 6-7 years of div i time become the premier team in our league. I just wish that pissed off more people than just me!!

Abut hey, at least there is the nit!!

Everyone here is pissed off. There isn't a single fan happy with what happened last night but most of us decide to be civil in the way we respond to it.

[wsuwillie]

I'm not losing my mind over this loss. I'm very disappointed but trying to be realistic here. Nagy took over a program devastated by the incompetence of his predecessor. He has brought in a new level of recruits here. But this culture he is building takes time. What he's accomplished thus far is remarkable. I know others have had quicker success in certain instances, but that is what it is.

We need to focus on the consolation prize and make the best of it. We don't have a choice. We have some holes in our game/team and UIC has a lot of things we do not. If we are mad about losing to them THIS year, I think next year will be an even bigger challenge.

Lastly, I don't get the allowed name-calling of another poster - kfx in this case. He's a true WSU fan and he has high expectations. He should be allowed to vent without being blasted by another poster. What he has to say isn't wrong. Maybe not your style or even your belief, but he's a true fan who wants this orogram to succeed and grow...just like every other person who posts on this site.